Post by the Scribe on Apr 12, 2022 6:57:08 GMT
Another Silver Thread of interest
2004/Las Vegas/Michael Moore
ronstadt.proboards.com/thread/1059/2004-las-vegas-michael-moore
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
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Jul 19, 2013 at 5:43pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 19, 2013 at 5:43pm
Bush certainly had a "I don't give a damn what you think," when it came to those who spoke out against him. He should've cared in the extreme since his presidency was under the cloud of having obtained it through theft. He should've cared enough about the presidency during the post-election/pre-oath period in which he and Gore were battling for Florida, to have said, "I don't want to win the presidency in this manner. Count the votes as you think the voters intended them. If I win, I win but if I lose, people won't think me a crook." But, it was obvious he wanted the presidency through any means in which he could get it, and if it meant obtaining the presidency through theft, so what?
But, I still don't believe the news media feared Bush using the nuclear option, going to the FCC. I think the news media had changed around a lot from the days when Nixon was done in by Woodward and Bernstein in the Watergate scandal. As long as the news media was along for the ride, I think Bush or Cheney or someone working for them could've committed murder and the news media wouldn't have bothered reporting it. I thought they were complicit in covering for Bush-Cheney and still think it's that way through the present day.*************************************
pg. 2
the Scribe
Desperado
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Jul 22, 2013 at 1:17pm QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 22, 2013 at 1:17pm
We didn't have career politicians at the start of the country. People came in to do their 2, 4, or 6 years and were gone. As far as money out of elections it is easy. All qualified candidates are publicly funded (only) and you have a clean election process so everyone has a good shot at winning. Voting is done by a runoff voting process. All quite easy and is done elsewhere.
I think we have enough smart "non-corporate" and "non-partisan" Americans who can come up with a fool proof clean elections process that the Supreme Court can't screw with. And runoff voting is a better way to elect someone:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting
This would stop the party machine and we could have issue politics and not party politics. Most Americans are operational Liberals and we can all agree on certain major things and then agree to disagree on the others or come to some concensus. Democracy is not easy. I would vote to get rid of the useless Senate and tweak some other things if need be. Something has to be done and sooner than later.
Last Edit: Jul 22, 2013 at 1:46pm by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
******************************************
pg.3
2004/Las Vegas/Michael Moore
ronstadt.proboards.com/thread/1059/2004-las-vegas-michael-moore
Feb 14, 2013 at 10:51am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Feb 14, 2013 at 10:51am
Did Linda's children grow up to become Republicans? She waited until the end of the show to dedicate one encore song to Michael Moore and look what happened, supposedly.
Linda Ronstadt Censured for Anti-Bush Remarks
By Austin Cline, About.com GuideJuly 21, 2004
More and more we find that when someone is critical of President Bush, they become the targets of a nasty backlash designed to help silence anyone else uppity enough to voice their opinions. Whoopi Goldberg was dropped from Slimfast ads, now Linda Ronstadt has been escorted out of a casino. Jerry Fink writes for the Las Vegas Sun
[Aladdin President Bill] Timmins, who was among the almost 5,000 fans in the audience at the Aladdin Theatre for the Performing Arts, had Ronstadt escorted to her tour bus and her belongings from her hotel room sent to her. Timmins also sent word to Ronstadt that she was no longer welcome at the property for future performances...
Timmins told Las Vegas Sun gossip columnist Timothy McDarrah: "We live in a city where people come from all over the world to be entertained. We hired Ms. Ronstadt as an entertainer, not as a political activist. Whether you are politically on the left or on the right is not the point. She went up in front of the stage and just let it out. This was not the correct forum for that."
Timmins said she was wrong to bring her politics to the stage. "Our first and only priority is the enjoyment of our customers," he said. "I made the decision to ask Miss Ronstadt to leave the hotel. A situation like that can easily turn ugly and I didn't want anything more to come out of it. There were a lot of angry people there after she started talking.
Funny, I don’t seem to remember incidents like this whenever Clinton was criticized. When such things happen, reactions like Timmins are common: singers (or whoever) aren’t supposed to try to communicate political messages, they are just supposed to sing and entertain people. But since when is any art — especially singing and songwriting — supposed to be apolitical?
Reactions among some fans to Ronstadt’s comments were very negative:
Some of them reportedly defaced posters of her in the lobby, writing comments and tossing drinks on her pictures.
I don’t see any indication that hotel security did anything about the people who were committing vandalism because they didn’t like Ronstadt’s opinions, they just didn’t something about Ronstadt for voicing an opinion that some people didn’t like. Makes sense, right?
One might disagree with the manner or timing that Ronstadt used, but to argue that she shouldn’t communicate anything political during her performance is simply asinine. It betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about art generally and music in particular.
********************************************************************************************************
Conservatives Speak Out on Linda Ronstadt
By Austin Cline, About.com GuideJuly 22, 2004
I wrote yesterday about Linda Ronstadt being escorted out of the Aladdin casino in Las Vegas, without even being allowed to get her things from her room, because she dedicated a song to Michael Moore and made some negative comments about President Bush.
Unfortunately, reactions from the far-right have been less than mature. Here are some posts I found on Ronstadt’s official site:
Linda Ronstadt's publicity stunt on Saturday night is nothing short of anti-American treason. She should be booed off stage for every concert she plays from now on.
#### YELLOW #### ANTIAMERICAN #### SHOOT HER!!
I have to say that I really am going to enjoy the backlash on your career and others who mock what this country stands for and our forefathers who lost life and limb to protect it.
... I do know the truth and that truth is that you are a socialist and completely out of touch with the american people because of your financial and emotional status and are anti american. May God Bless our country and overcome communists like you. Hope your sales fall thru the toilet.
The Michael Moores of this world will lead us to the needless deaths, imprisonment and torture of thousands under the continued dictatorial regimes like Saddam. Those same regimes support worldwide terrorists activity. I can not support someone who lends aid and support to him.
Well, that’s quite a set of comments, isn’t it? Three specifically state that Linda Ronstadt is “anti-American” because she made “anit-Bush” comments. Isn’t it interesting how some people equate “America” as a nation or ideal with “George W. Bush,” a specific person who is holding the office of President for a specific and limited amount of time? I don’t think that they are upset over criticism of “The President,” the office but of “George W. Bush,” the person.
One might legitimately and fairly disagree with Ronstadt’s comments, but this sort of “cult of personality” is incompatible with the traditions of American politics. By this I mean that no office in the government should be so closely linked with an individual office holder that criticism of that person are treated as criticisms of the office or of the government generally. It is ironic that the one critic attacks Ronstadt for being a socialist and “communist” (I can’t figure out where that comes from, except to speculate that this is another person who can’t come up with any label for anti-American individuals other than “socialist” and “communist”) when such cults of personality were rather common in the old communist nations.
The “best” (if I may use that term) comments come from someone claiming to be a marine who spent 14 months in Afghanistan and another 8 in Iraq where he is due to return shortly:
I can't believe I wasted all that money and time to you! Your Las Vegas show was absolutely appalling and infuriating. Why couldn't you just keep your pie hole shut when your not singing? Nobody was there to be subjected to your bull crap political musings and anti-american speak! I wish we would have torn the place down, but thank GOD the casino through your butt out on the street, if only they bought you a one way ticket to Iran where you belong.
Every one of your CDs and LPs just went into the trash chute. You are a terrorist loving, socialists who needs to get your butt over France where you can renounce your United States citizenship and live your pin headed, anti-American, Pro-Communist life agenda out with other clueless pigs like yourself. ... Treasonistic in Wartime. Stupefying anytime. Your talent can no longer hide your mental midgetry and HATE-America First values & morality. You are the new poster child for resending woman's right to vote, for millennia woman were not allowed to participate in political intellectual thought through out the world in all cultures. You, your thoughts, your mouth and your utterances are exactly why that was so.
Another stupid chick bites the dust.
Not only is Linda Ronstadt “treasonistic,” but she’s also a “poster child” for why women shouldn’t be allowed to vote? I wonder what the women in this marine’s life would say to that — I doubt we’ll ever find out, though, because I doubt that he would ever have the courage to take public responsibility for his words and beliefs. It’s all too common that those who would deprive others of liberty prefer to work from the shadows and in anonymity.
It’s interesting, though, that this marine lambasts Ronstadt for the poor intellectual quality of her ideas but, in doing so, fails to display anything that might be considered intellectually sophisticated — or intellectually mediocre, for that matter. He offers not a single coherent argument or a even the faintest hint of logical rigor in his ideas. Instead, it’s just a vicious screed attacking everything and anything that differs from his own point of view. It’s difficult to see how and why such a person should be taken the least little bit seriously; instead, his writing seems more appropriate for ridicule and derision.
He also wrote:
My spelling is impeccable. Your vision is not. Liberal chicks like you are THE most hateful people on Earth right now. Minds like yours will have the children of the future enslaved in Islamic fascism. Minds like mine have freed MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of enslaved people the world over from evil people who think and believe just like you do during the last century. Talk about compassion and consideration! Minds like yours fought every move making that happen out of timid, fear-based, insecurity and a complete lack of a moral compass as well as being horribly flawed politically. YOU and small minds like YOURS and thoughts like YOURS have always been WRONG, WEEK, DANGEROUS AND THE ASH HEAP OF HISTORY PROVES IT AGAIN AND AGAIN!
Well, “liberal chicks” must be pretty hateful if they can out-do this marine when it comes to nasty attitudes.
I hope your children grow up to be Republicans. They probably will out of survival, because even the dumbest of creatures instinctively know how to run from danger. You, sweetie, are definitely dangerous to Freedom and America. You, LINDA and your kind are THE ENEMIES WITHIN!
This marine thinks that women shouldn’t be able to vote and that Islam is evil, but he’s not the one who is dangerous to freedom? What causes a person to become an “enemy within” — disagreement with President Bush?
Our marine has a lot to say about Islam, too:
Islam hates all who are not born of the faith or who will not convert. It is a fundamental core of Islam to defeat or convert all the world. It is a cornerstone of Islam that the unconverted souls are evil and it is ones duty to God to kill all of them. ... Islam is at war with the world and has been for the past thousand years. It has never stopped, we only held it at bay for a couple of centuries or so thinking it was over.
The crusades were not Christians warring and spreading Christianity to the Muslim world. The Crusades were defending Europe and Christianity itself from the onslaught of hundreds of years of warring Islam which had spread like a cancer through the Middle East, Africa and Asia with astonishing speed and complete and total dominance. A conquering Islam was knocking on Europe's door, and it was the great Kings and warriors of Spain who answered and pushed back. Western technology and fearless leadership was supreme, even back then, against the barbaric and unchanged precepts of Islam. ... Islam is an idea, a warped religion. ... It is the most dangerous of all human evils, it is sickened, unfettered thought and devotion to a religiously warped and radical concept of salvation and proclamation.
It’s depressing to think that there are American soldiers and marines in the Middle East, representing America, who have such warped, distorted, ignorant, and hateful views such as this. The author is boasts proudly about how he has helped people in the region, but at the same time he viciously attacks their religion. If their religion really so evil, at war with the West, and seeking to kill all nonbelievers, why would he seek to save them from dictators? I can’t imagine how can he believe all that and not go insane from the self-contradictions.
As much as he hates Islam, I think he hates liberalism even more:
I can understand why liberals would side with this, Liberalism being so close to the way they operate and think. ... All you atheist will be killed. All you homosexuals will be beheaded. All you woman will be veiled, silenced and become mere property to the men to do with as they wish. All you drug users will loose first your hand, then your arm and if you still use, finally your head. All you drinkers will loose your fingers, then your hand, then your arms. All you non believers will be killed. All you FREE SPEACH zealots will be silenced and tortured, with parts of your body cut off every time you speak out like you do here and you will be imprisoned. ... This is what you God Damn liberals want to defend and embrace in your complete stupidity and total selfishness.
Aren’t we lucky that we are protected from such things like this marine? If people like he were in charge, we wouldn’t have to worry about the status of nonbelievers, the ability of women to vote, or having our free speech silenced. He genuinely cares about liberty and American democratic values so our future is safe in his hands. Right?
Oh, wait, this is the same person who said that Linda Ronstadt is the “the new poster child for resending woman's right to vote,” so maybe he isn’t the best person to trust with our liberty...
In my mind I don't fight for people like you liberals. I fight for real Americans and the best President the United States could possible have at this place in the timeline of human history. And most of all, I fight for the grateful MILLIONS of Iraqi, Afghanistan and Kuwaiti people who now live in freedom for the first time in the history of these countries. The vast majority of them LOVE Americans and the American Soldiers.
Well, it seems as though it was correct of me to rethink things above — he certainly doesn’t sound like he is interested in fighting for people who disagree with him, and that suggests that he isn’t fighting for people’s right to disagree with him. Strange that he things we should be grateful for him fighting authoritarian Islamists when he appears to be no less authoritarian in his own politics and attitudes. Aside from the fact that no one has been dumb enough to give him a chance to put his ideas into effect, what’s the difference between him and the people he fights?
He says that he fights for the millions of people in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kuwait... who follow a religion that is the “most dangerous of all human evils.” The vast majority of people there “LOVE Americans and the American soldiers,” even as they believe that their “duty to God“ is to kill the unconverted and who see themselves as “at war with the world.”
Is your head spinning, too?
The TERRORISTS and SOCIALISTS and COMMUNISTS and BRUTAL DICTATORS ALL want KERRY to win. YOU Liberals keep great company. ... Imagine, Osama Bin Laden and YOU liberals have the same ideals and wishes. SCARY STUPID LIBERALS.
I’m guessing that this marine has spent a lot of quality time with Osama bin Laden personally, discussing things like politics and international diplomacy, thus providing him with the knowledge and insight necessary to know exactly what it is that bin Laden and his followers want in terms of American foreign policy.
I myself haven’t had the chance to spend that much time learning from Islamic extremists like Osama bin Laden and thus don’t have the incredible expertise that this marine does, so I guess it would be wise not to question or challenge his judgment here. Right?
Islam has declared war on the US for over twenty years during both parties control of the US government. ONLY BUSH has had the balls and the VISION to look at our destruction and attackers in the face and say NOT HERE NOT NOW and take the fight to the enemy. All that you liberals have ever done is have tea and champaign with the enemies of the Free World. Giving them comfort, money, secrets, awards and compassion all the while they spit in your face time and time again.
Some of the nations this Marine criticizes includes Saudi Arabia and Pakistan — nations that President Bush has voiced strong support for. I won’t argue that there isn’t quite a lot wrong with how those governments have supported and encouraged Islamic extremism, but it’s instructive that this author can’t muster any outrage about how his favorite president has treated them and supported them himself.
If this represents anything close to the quality of thinking and reasoning common to those who walked out of Linda Ronstadt’s concert in Las Vegas and those who are claiming to no longer be fans, I think that I can say with some confidence that they are fans she can do without. Let’s be honest here, what kind of artist or entertainer would wish to be even remotely associated with people like those quoted above?
If thinking and believing like this are what is required in order to be considered a “patriotic American,” then I would be proud to accept the labels of “unpatriotic” and “anti-American.” These people don’t look our sound anything like the sort of America I would want to live in or be happy about.
Last Edit: Jan 25, 2022 at 1:55am by rick <---------- huh? wtf? You can see the moderators editing peoples comments throughout this thread. (this is why I no longer post at that site)
"Keep it real."
Did Linda's children grow up to become Republicans? She waited until the end of the show to dedicate one encore song to Michael Moore and look what happened, supposedly.
Linda Ronstadt Censured for Anti-Bush Remarks
By Austin Cline, About.com GuideJuly 21, 2004
More and more we find that when someone is critical of President Bush, they become the targets of a nasty backlash designed to help silence anyone else uppity enough to voice their opinions. Whoopi Goldberg was dropped from Slimfast ads, now Linda Ronstadt has been escorted out of a casino. Jerry Fink writes for the Las Vegas Sun
[Aladdin President Bill] Timmins, who was among the almost 5,000 fans in the audience at the Aladdin Theatre for the Performing Arts, had Ronstadt escorted to her tour bus and her belongings from her hotel room sent to her. Timmins also sent word to Ronstadt that she was no longer welcome at the property for future performances...
Timmins told Las Vegas Sun gossip columnist Timothy McDarrah: "We live in a city where people come from all over the world to be entertained. We hired Ms. Ronstadt as an entertainer, not as a political activist. Whether you are politically on the left or on the right is not the point. She went up in front of the stage and just let it out. This was not the correct forum for that."
Timmins said she was wrong to bring her politics to the stage. "Our first and only priority is the enjoyment of our customers," he said. "I made the decision to ask Miss Ronstadt to leave the hotel. A situation like that can easily turn ugly and I didn't want anything more to come out of it. There were a lot of angry people there after she started talking.
Funny, I don’t seem to remember incidents like this whenever Clinton was criticized. When such things happen, reactions like Timmins are common: singers (or whoever) aren’t supposed to try to communicate political messages, they are just supposed to sing and entertain people. But since when is any art — especially singing and songwriting — supposed to be apolitical?
Reactions among some fans to Ronstadt’s comments were very negative:
Some of them reportedly defaced posters of her in the lobby, writing comments and tossing drinks on her pictures.
I don’t see any indication that hotel security did anything about the people who were committing vandalism because they didn’t like Ronstadt’s opinions, they just didn’t something about Ronstadt for voicing an opinion that some people didn’t like. Makes sense, right?
One might disagree with the manner or timing that Ronstadt used, but to argue that she shouldn’t communicate anything political during her performance is simply asinine. It betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about art generally and music in particular.
********************************************************************************************************
Conservatives Speak Out on Linda Ronstadt
By Austin Cline, About.com GuideJuly 22, 2004
I wrote yesterday about Linda Ronstadt being escorted out of the Aladdin casino in Las Vegas, without even being allowed to get her things from her room, because she dedicated a song to Michael Moore and made some negative comments about President Bush.
Unfortunately, reactions from the far-right have been less than mature. Here are some posts I found on Ronstadt’s official site:
Linda Ronstadt's publicity stunt on Saturday night is nothing short of anti-American treason. She should be booed off stage for every concert she plays from now on.
#### YELLOW #### ANTIAMERICAN #### SHOOT HER!!
I have to say that I really am going to enjoy the backlash on your career and others who mock what this country stands for and our forefathers who lost life and limb to protect it.
... I do know the truth and that truth is that you are a socialist and completely out of touch with the american people because of your financial and emotional status and are anti american. May God Bless our country and overcome communists like you. Hope your sales fall thru the toilet.
The Michael Moores of this world will lead us to the needless deaths, imprisonment and torture of thousands under the continued dictatorial regimes like Saddam. Those same regimes support worldwide terrorists activity. I can not support someone who lends aid and support to him.
Well, that’s quite a set of comments, isn’t it? Three specifically state that Linda Ronstadt is “anti-American” because she made “anit-Bush” comments. Isn’t it interesting how some people equate “America” as a nation or ideal with “George W. Bush,” a specific person who is holding the office of President for a specific and limited amount of time? I don’t think that they are upset over criticism of “The President,” the office but of “George W. Bush,” the person.
One might legitimately and fairly disagree with Ronstadt’s comments, but this sort of “cult of personality” is incompatible with the traditions of American politics. By this I mean that no office in the government should be so closely linked with an individual office holder that criticism of that person are treated as criticisms of the office or of the government generally. It is ironic that the one critic attacks Ronstadt for being a socialist and “communist” (I can’t figure out where that comes from, except to speculate that this is another person who can’t come up with any label for anti-American individuals other than “socialist” and “communist”) when such cults of personality were rather common in the old communist nations.
The “best” (if I may use that term) comments come from someone claiming to be a marine who spent 14 months in Afghanistan and another 8 in Iraq where he is due to return shortly:
I can't believe I wasted all that money and time to you! Your Las Vegas show was absolutely appalling and infuriating. Why couldn't you just keep your pie hole shut when your not singing? Nobody was there to be subjected to your bull crap political musings and anti-american speak! I wish we would have torn the place down, but thank GOD the casino through your butt out on the street, if only they bought you a one way ticket to Iran where you belong.
Every one of your CDs and LPs just went into the trash chute. You are a terrorist loving, socialists who needs to get your butt over France where you can renounce your United States citizenship and live your pin headed, anti-American, Pro-Communist life agenda out with other clueless pigs like yourself. ... Treasonistic in Wartime. Stupefying anytime. Your talent can no longer hide your mental midgetry and HATE-America First values & morality. You are the new poster child for resending woman's right to vote, for millennia woman were not allowed to participate in political intellectual thought through out the world in all cultures. You, your thoughts, your mouth and your utterances are exactly why that was so.
Another stupid chick bites the dust.
Not only is Linda Ronstadt “treasonistic,” but she’s also a “poster child” for why women shouldn’t be allowed to vote? I wonder what the women in this marine’s life would say to that — I doubt we’ll ever find out, though, because I doubt that he would ever have the courage to take public responsibility for his words and beliefs. It’s all too common that those who would deprive others of liberty prefer to work from the shadows and in anonymity.
It’s interesting, though, that this marine lambasts Ronstadt for the poor intellectual quality of her ideas but, in doing so, fails to display anything that might be considered intellectually sophisticated — or intellectually mediocre, for that matter. He offers not a single coherent argument or a even the faintest hint of logical rigor in his ideas. Instead, it’s just a vicious screed attacking everything and anything that differs from his own point of view. It’s difficult to see how and why such a person should be taken the least little bit seriously; instead, his writing seems more appropriate for ridicule and derision.
He also wrote:
My spelling is impeccable. Your vision is not. Liberal chicks like you are THE most hateful people on Earth right now. Minds like yours will have the children of the future enslaved in Islamic fascism. Minds like mine have freed MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of enslaved people the world over from evil people who think and believe just like you do during the last century. Talk about compassion and consideration! Minds like yours fought every move making that happen out of timid, fear-based, insecurity and a complete lack of a moral compass as well as being horribly flawed politically. YOU and small minds like YOURS and thoughts like YOURS have always been WRONG, WEEK, DANGEROUS AND THE ASH HEAP OF HISTORY PROVES IT AGAIN AND AGAIN!
Well, “liberal chicks” must be pretty hateful if they can out-do this marine when it comes to nasty attitudes.
I hope your children grow up to be Republicans. They probably will out of survival, because even the dumbest of creatures instinctively know how to run from danger. You, sweetie, are definitely dangerous to Freedom and America. You, LINDA and your kind are THE ENEMIES WITHIN!
This marine thinks that women shouldn’t be able to vote and that Islam is evil, but he’s not the one who is dangerous to freedom? What causes a person to become an “enemy within” — disagreement with President Bush?
Our marine has a lot to say about Islam, too:
Islam hates all who are not born of the faith or who will not convert. It is a fundamental core of Islam to defeat or convert all the world. It is a cornerstone of Islam that the unconverted souls are evil and it is ones duty to God to kill all of them. ... Islam is at war with the world and has been for the past thousand years. It has never stopped, we only held it at bay for a couple of centuries or so thinking it was over.
The crusades were not Christians warring and spreading Christianity to the Muslim world. The Crusades were defending Europe and Christianity itself from the onslaught of hundreds of years of warring Islam which had spread like a cancer through the Middle East, Africa and Asia with astonishing speed and complete and total dominance. A conquering Islam was knocking on Europe's door, and it was the great Kings and warriors of Spain who answered and pushed back. Western technology and fearless leadership was supreme, even back then, against the barbaric and unchanged precepts of Islam. ... Islam is an idea, a warped religion. ... It is the most dangerous of all human evils, it is sickened, unfettered thought and devotion to a religiously warped and radical concept of salvation and proclamation.
It’s depressing to think that there are American soldiers and marines in the Middle East, representing America, who have such warped, distorted, ignorant, and hateful views such as this. The author is boasts proudly about how he has helped people in the region, but at the same time he viciously attacks their religion. If their religion really so evil, at war with the West, and seeking to kill all nonbelievers, why would he seek to save them from dictators? I can’t imagine how can he believe all that and not go insane from the self-contradictions.
As much as he hates Islam, I think he hates liberalism even more:
I can understand why liberals would side with this, Liberalism being so close to the way they operate and think. ... All you atheist will be killed. All you homosexuals will be beheaded. All you woman will be veiled, silenced and become mere property to the men to do with as they wish. All you drug users will loose first your hand, then your arm and if you still use, finally your head. All you drinkers will loose your fingers, then your hand, then your arms. All you non believers will be killed. All you FREE SPEACH zealots will be silenced and tortured, with parts of your body cut off every time you speak out like you do here and you will be imprisoned. ... This is what you God Damn liberals want to defend and embrace in your complete stupidity and total selfishness.
Aren’t we lucky that we are protected from such things like this marine? If people like he were in charge, we wouldn’t have to worry about the status of nonbelievers, the ability of women to vote, or having our free speech silenced. He genuinely cares about liberty and American democratic values so our future is safe in his hands. Right?
Oh, wait, this is the same person who said that Linda Ronstadt is the “the new poster child for resending woman's right to vote,” so maybe he isn’t the best person to trust with our liberty...
In my mind I don't fight for people like you liberals. I fight for real Americans and the best President the United States could possible have at this place in the timeline of human history. And most of all, I fight for the grateful MILLIONS of Iraqi, Afghanistan and Kuwaiti people who now live in freedom for the first time in the history of these countries. The vast majority of them LOVE Americans and the American Soldiers.
Well, it seems as though it was correct of me to rethink things above — he certainly doesn’t sound like he is interested in fighting for people who disagree with him, and that suggests that he isn’t fighting for people’s right to disagree with him. Strange that he things we should be grateful for him fighting authoritarian Islamists when he appears to be no less authoritarian in his own politics and attitudes. Aside from the fact that no one has been dumb enough to give him a chance to put his ideas into effect, what’s the difference between him and the people he fights?
He says that he fights for the millions of people in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kuwait... who follow a religion that is the “most dangerous of all human evils.” The vast majority of people there “LOVE Americans and the American soldiers,” even as they believe that their “duty to God“ is to kill the unconverted and who see themselves as “at war with the world.”
Is your head spinning, too?
The TERRORISTS and SOCIALISTS and COMMUNISTS and BRUTAL DICTATORS ALL want KERRY to win. YOU Liberals keep great company. ... Imagine, Osama Bin Laden and YOU liberals have the same ideals and wishes. SCARY STUPID LIBERALS.
I’m guessing that this marine has spent a lot of quality time with Osama bin Laden personally, discussing things like politics and international diplomacy, thus providing him with the knowledge and insight necessary to know exactly what it is that bin Laden and his followers want in terms of American foreign policy.
I myself haven’t had the chance to spend that much time learning from Islamic extremists like Osama bin Laden and thus don’t have the incredible expertise that this marine does, so I guess it would be wise not to question or challenge his judgment here. Right?
Islam has declared war on the US for over twenty years during both parties control of the US government. ONLY BUSH has had the balls and the VISION to look at our destruction and attackers in the face and say NOT HERE NOT NOW and take the fight to the enemy. All that you liberals have ever done is have tea and champaign with the enemies of the Free World. Giving them comfort, money, secrets, awards and compassion all the while they spit in your face time and time again.
Some of the nations this Marine criticizes includes Saudi Arabia and Pakistan — nations that President Bush has voiced strong support for. I won’t argue that there isn’t quite a lot wrong with how those governments have supported and encouraged Islamic extremism, but it’s instructive that this author can’t muster any outrage about how his favorite president has treated them and supported them himself.
If this represents anything close to the quality of thinking and reasoning common to those who walked out of Linda Ronstadt’s concert in Las Vegas and those who are claiming to no longer be fans, I think that I can say with some confidence that they are fans she can do without. Let’s be honest here, what kind of artist or entertainer would wish to be even remotely associated with people like those quoted above?
If thinking and believing like this are what is required in order to be considered a “patriotic American,” then I would be proud to accept the labels of “unpatriotic” and “anti-American.” These people don’t look our sound anything like the sort of America I would want to live in or be happy about.
Last Edit: Jan 25, 2022 at 1:55am by rick <---------- huh? wtf? You can see the moderators editing peoples comments throughout this thread. (this is why I no longer post at that site)
"Keep it real."
Robert Axel
Deleted Member
Feb 14, 2013 at 12:18pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 at 12:18pm
I would like to have hoped we as a country have matured a bit since then, but....
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Feb 14, 2013 at 12:18pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 at 12:18pm
I would like to have hoped we as a country have matured a bit since then, but....
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Jul 17, 2013 at 4:32pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:32pm
I think we'd be remiss not to be reminded of how we learned that not everything that happens in Vegas necessarily stays there. We, and Linda, found out about this truism nine years ago tonight, on July 17, 2004, when she dedicated "Desperado" to FAHRENHEIT 9/11 director Michael Moore on the stage of the Aladdin Hotel, and got herself into the hottest political water of her entire life. She knew what it felt like for Natalie Maines when she made her infamous (and quoted-out-of-context) missive about Bush in London.
Of course, three days later, when she appeared here in Los Angeles, a concert that I went to (and God was I ever nervous that night), Linda tempted fate again when she first came onstage and uttered those famous words: "So...seen any movies lately?"
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Jul 17, 2013 at 4:32pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:32pm
I think we'd be remiss not to be reminded of how we learned that not everything that happens in Vegas necessarily stays there. We, and Linda, found out about this truism nine years ago tonight, on July 17, 2004, when she dedicated "Desperado" to FAHRENHEIT 9/11 director Michael Moore on the stage of the Aladdin Hotel, and got herself into the hottest political water of her entire life. She knew what it felt like for Natalie Maines when she made her infamous (and quoted-out-of-context) missive about Bush in London.
Of course, three days later, when she appeared here in Los Angeles, a concert that I went to (and God was I ever nervous that night), Linda tempted fate again when she first came onstage and uttered those famous words: "So...seen any movies lately?"
Linda tempted fate again when she first came onstage and uttered those famous words: "So...seen any movies lately?"
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Jul 17, 2013 at 4:47pm Quote Post Options Post by the Scribe on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:47pm
Yes, that was one of her most classic lines!
She got big laughs for that one.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 4:47pm Quote Post Options Post by the Scribe on Jul 17, 2013 at 4:47pm
Yes, that was one of her most classic lines!
She got big laughs for that one.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 5:00pm QuotePost OptionsPost by 70smusicfan on Jul 17, 2013 at 5:00pm
I remember going to a Linda Ronstadt concert soon after Hurricane Katrina in the 1995-96 timeframe where she dedicated "tongue in cheek" her Blue Bayou encore to President Bush after "all he had done for the victims". About 1/2 of us agreed with the sentiment, and 1/2 of the audience was gob smacked.
Any good summaries (news articles) of exactly what happened in Las Vegas - both Linda and the audience - it all appears to have been blown out of proportion by the urban legends.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 5:00pm QuotePost OptionsPost by 70smusicfan on Jul 17, 2013 at 5:00pm
I remember going to a Linda Ronstadt concert soon after Hurricane Katrina in the 1995-96 timeframe where she dedicated "tongue in cheek" her Blue Bayou encore to President Bush after "all he had done for the victims". About 1/2 of us agreed with the sentiment, and 1/2 of the audience was gob smacked.
Any good summaries (news articles) of exactly what happened in Las Vegas - both Linda and the audience - it all appears to have been blown out of proportion by the urban legends.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 5:50pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 17, 2013 at 5:50pm
I remember vividly that quote; but I also remember how nervous I was when I walked through those doors at the Universal Amphitheater that evening. Bag screenings, which had obviously been put in place after 9/11, most notably just down the 101 Freeway at the Hollywood Bowl, were very much in evidence; and I had also read that some of the same kinds of kooks that had done a number at rattling the Dixie Chicks were trying to do likewise to Linda, who did her utmost not to show how nervous she may have been. As it was, we did have a handful of "shut up and sing" hecklers (by the way, you can't do both those things--"shut up" and sing--at the same time [LOL]) who probably drove up the 101 from the GOP stronghold of Orange County, and probably were never fans of Linda's to begin with; they just wanted to make trouble.
But it was a fairly full house that night, as Linda did preview two songs from her then-upcoming Hummin' To Mysefl, plus the songs she did with Nelson Riddle two decades before, then to her classic 70s/80s songbook. And at the end, handed a bouqet of flowers courtesy of Michael "The Muckraker" Moore, she did "Desperado as an encore--just to tweak the neocons in the audience.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 5:50pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 17, 2013 at 5:50pm
I remember vividly that quote; but I also remember how nervous I was when I walked through those doors at the Universal Amphitheater that evening. Bag screenings, which had obviously been put in place after 9/11, most notably just down the 101 Freeway at the Hollywood Bowl, were very much in evidence; and I had also read that some of the same kinds of kooks that had done a number at rattling the Dixie Chicks were trying to do likewise to Linda, who did her utmost not to show how nervous she may have been. As it was, we did have a handful of "shut up and sing" hecklers (by the way, you can't do both those things--"shut up" and sing--at the same time [LOL]) who probably drove up the 101 from the GOP stronghold of Orange County, and probably were never fans of Linda's to begin with; they just wanted to make trouble.
But it was a fairly full house that night, as Linda did preview two songs from her then-upcoming Hummin' To Mysefl, plus the songs she did with Nelson Riddle two decades before, then to her classic 70s/80s songbook. And at the end, handed a bouqet of flowers courtesy of Michael "The Muckraker" Moore, she did "Desperado as an encore--just to tweak the neocons in the audience.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 8:14pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Robert Morse on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:14pm
Agreed..the story has been blown out of proportion. I think you really had to have been there to say with accuracy what happened. It certainly was not her first dedication to Moore and she had been dedicating so gs to bush and Enron as well. The media loves to blow things out of proportion....and if it was a slow news day even more so.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 8:14pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Robert Morse on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:14pm
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Jul 17, 2013 at 5:00pm 70smusicfan said:
I remember going to a Linda Ronstadt concert soon after Hurricane Katrina in the 1995-96 timeframe where she dedicated "tongue in cheek" her Blue Bayou encore to President Bush after "all he had done for the victims". About 1/2 of us agreed with the sentiment, and 1/2 of the audience was gob smacked.
Any good summaries (news articles) of exactly what happened in Las Vegas - both Linda and the audience - it all appears to have been blown out of proportion by the urban legends.
Jul 17, 2013 at 5:00pm 70smusicfan said:
I remember going to a Linda Ronstadt concert soon after Hurricane Katrina in the 1995-96 timeframe where she dedicated "tongue in cheek" her Blue Bayou encore to President Bush after "all he had done for the victims". About 1/2 of us agreed with the sentiment, and 1/2 of the audience was gob smacked.
Any good summaries (news articles) of exactly what happened in Las Vegas - both Linda and the audience - it all appears to have been blown out of proportion by the urban legends.
Agreed..the story has been blown out of proportion. I think you really had to have been there to say with accuracy what happened. It certainly was not her first dedication to Moore and she had been dedicating so gs to bush and Enron as well. The media loves to blow things out of proportion....and if it was a slow news day even more so.
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Jul 17, 2013 at 9:00pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 17, 2013 at 9:00pm
Quote by rob:
The weird thing was that she had started doing the FAHRENHEIT 9/11 dedication in late June at Wolf Trap in Vienna, Virginia, virtually at Bush's doorstep, and got a lot of catcalls, but the press didn't say much about it then. But two and a half weeks later, at the Aladdin, she does it, and the press goes haywire and all but openly accuses her of treason and sedition and whatever the hell else.
And all this b.s. about her whining that her First Amendment rights were violated was the real capper. Linda didn't "whine" at all; in fact, she seemed to get a big laugh out of the whole thing. She even seemed mighty proud of herself, especially with the letters of sympathy from Elton John, Sting, and the Stones, as well as the Eagles saying they weren't going to perform at the Aladdin.
But the press, in this post-9/11 world we live in, is neither compelled to tell the truth to the public anymore, nor compelled not to conceal, because the lie always generates more pay. Once again, Upton Sinclair had it right: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."
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Jul 17, 2013 at 9:00pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 17, 2013 at 9:00pm
Quote by rob:
Agreed..the story has been blown out of proportion. I think you really
had to have been there to say with accuracy what happened. It certainly
was not her first dedication to Moore and she had been dedicating so gs
to bush and Enron as well. The media loves to blow things out of
proportion....and if it was a slow news day even more so.
had to have been there to say with accuracy what happened. It certainly
was not her first dedication to Moore and she had been dedicating so gs
to bush and Enron as well. The media loves to blow things out of
proportion....and if it was a slow news day even more so.
And all this b.s. about her whining that her First Amendment rights were violated was the real capper. Linda didn't "whine" at all; in fact, she seemed to get a big laugh out of the whole thing. She even seemed mighty proud of herself, especially with the letters of sympathy from Elton John, Sting, and the Stones, as well as the Eagles saying they weren't going to perform at the Aladdin.
But the press, in this post-9/11 world we live in, is neither compelled to tell the truth to the public anymore, nor compelled not to conceal, because the lie always generates more pay. Once again, Upton Sinclair had it right: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:10am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:10am
I took it that she didn't even know it was happening and more or less shrugged it off. hey, you know what they say about publicity. so the variety of comments she got were just publicity for her. just having conversations whether people agree or not just keeps her in their minds. well, at least as long as our attention spans are in this country lol!!!! eddiejiinj
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:10am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:10am
I took it that she didn't even know it was happening and more or less shrugged it off. hey, you know what they say about publicity. so the variety of comments she got were just publicity for her. just having conversations whether people agree or not just keeps her in their minds. well, at least as long as our attention spans are in this country lol!!!! eddiejiinj
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:23am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:23am
sorry to be a stickler but Katrina happened 05/06 time frame not 1995. eddiejinnj
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:23am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:23am
sorry to be a stickler but Katrina happened 05/06 time frame not 1995. eddiejinnj
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:30am QuotePost OptionsPost by 70smusicfan on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:30am
Good catch - that's what I meant - about a year after the Aladdin incident she was still being outspoken.
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:30am QuotePost OptionsPost by 70smusicfan on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:30am
eddiejinnj Avatar
Jul 18, 2013 at 5:23am eddiejinnj said:
sorry to be a stickler but Katrina happened 05/06 time frame not 1995. eddiejinnj
Jul 18, 2013 at 5:23am eddiejinnj said:
sorry to be a stickler but Katrina happened 05/06 time frame not 1995. eddiejinnj
Good catch - that's what I meant - about a year after the Aladdin incident she was still being outspoken.
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:40am QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:40am
It is amazing how much of an overreaction there was to Linda's comments. All she did was an express an admiration for Michael Moore's movie.... It was much milder than Natalie Maine's comments or any hate radio out there.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2013 at 7:06am by eddiejinnj
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Jul 18, 2013 at 5:40am QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:40am
It is amazing how much of an overreaction there was to Linda's comments. All she did was an express an admiration for Michael Moore's movie.... It was much milder than Natalie Maine's comments or any hate radio out there.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2013 at 7:06am by eddiejinnj
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Jul 18, 2013 at 6:56am QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 18, 2013 at 6:56am
Linda's shout-out to Moore was something that the right-wing media liked to blow up into something that it wasn't; and I'm pretty sure that Linda got a lot of mileage out of it. But I think there were also those nuts out there that wanted to take their anger out on her one fatal step further. It was all quite ridiculous, as Natalie's "ashamed" comment of Bush might have been had it not been made so close to the start of a war (albeit the most illegitimate one America has fought since Vietnam).
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Jul 18, 2013 at 6:56am QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 18, 2013 at 6:56am
Linda's shout-out to Moore was something that the right-wing media liked to blow up into something that it wasn't; and I'm pretty sure that Linda got a lot of mileage out of it. But I think there were also those nuts out there that wanted to take their anger out on her one fatal step further. It was all quite ridiculous, as Natalie's "ashamed" comment of Bush might have been had it not been made so close to the start of a war (albeit the most illegitimate one America has fought since Vietnam).
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Jul 18, 2013 at 7:13am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 18, 2013 at 7:13am
the liberal media imo would have loved it also since it knocked whom they disliked and use Linda's celebrity to both discredit whom they did not like and maybe also have the benefit of promoting the movie. there are advantages on both sides almost like a legal case in the court of opinion. it just makes common sense and not based on my personal opinions. eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2013 at 7:16am by eddiejinnj
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Jul 18, 2013 at 7:13am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 18, 2013 at 7:13am
the liberal media imo would have loved it also since it knocked whom they disliked and use Linda's celebrity to both discredit whom they did not like and maybe also have the benefit of promoting the movie. there are advantages on both sides almost like a legal case in the court of opinion. it just makes common sense and not based on my personal opinions. eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2013 at 7:16am by eddiejinnj
Jul 18, 2013 9:41:27 GMT -5 Robert Morse said:
Well said Erik!
Jul 17, 2013 23:00:26 GMT -5 erik said:
Quote by rob:
The weird thing was that she had started doing the FAHRENHEIT 9/11 dedication in late June at Wolf Trap in Vienna, Virginia, virtually at Bush's doorstep, and got a lot of catcalls, but the press didn't say much about it then. But two and a half weeks later, at the Aladdin, she does it, and the press goes haywire and all but openly accuses her of treason and sedition and whatever the hell else.
And all this b.s. about her whining that her First Amendment rights were violated was the real capper. Linda didn't "whine" at all; in fact, she seemed to get a big laugh out of the whole thing. She even seemed mighty proud of herself, especially with the letters of sympathy from Elton John, Sting, and the Stones, as well as the Eagles saying they weren't going to perform at the Aladdin.
But the press, in this post-9/11 world we live in, is neither compelled to tell the truth to the public anymore, nor compelled not to conceal, because the lie always generates more pay. Once again, Upton Sinclair had it right: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."
Quote by rob:
Agreed..the story has been blown out of proportion. I think you really
had to have been there to say with accuracy what happened. It certainly
was not her first dedication to Moore and she had been dedicating so gs
to bush and Enron as well. The media loves to blow things out of
proportion....and if it was a slow news day even more so.
had to have been there to say with accuracy what happened. It certainly
was not her first dedication to Moore and she had been dedicating so gs
to bush and Enron as well. The media loves to blow things out of
proportion....and if it was a slow news day even more so.
And all this b.s. about her whining that her First Amendment rights were violated was the real capper. Linda didn't "whine" at all; in fact, she seemed to get a big laugh out of the whole thing. She even seemed mighty proud of herself, especially with the letters of sympathy from Elton John, Sting, and the Stones, as well as the Eagles saying they weren't going to perform at the Aladdin.
But the press, in this post-9/11 world we live in, is neither compelled to tell the truth to the public anymore, nor compelled not to conceal, because the lie always generates more pay. Once again, Upton Sinclair had it right: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it."
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Jul 18, 2013 at 1:12pm QuotePost OptionsPost by JasonKlose on Jul 18, 2013 at 1:12pm
I can't say for sure what actually happened at Linda's concerts that year since I wasn't at any of her shows and was not really a fan yet. But from everything I've read in print and from what Linda said in an interview, I'm absolutely convinced that the whole situation was blown out of proportion. And Linda is a very honest and sincere person. I would believe anything she says before I would believe anyone else. Linda had every right to speak out. That's one of the many things I love about her. It's sort of a contradiction in a way........considering her shy personality and gentleness. But when you get her dander up.......watch out! She's just very passionate about certain issues that are important to her. That's kind of how I am, so I can definitely relate to her.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2013 at 1:13pm by JasonKlose
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Jul 18, 2013 at 1:12pm QuotePost OptionsPost by JasonKlose on Jul 18, 2013 at 1:12pm
I can't say for sure what actually happened at Linda's concerts that year since I wasn't at any of her shows and was not really a fan yet. But from everything I've read in print and from what Linda said in an interview, I'm absolutely convinced that the whole situation was blown out of proportion. And Linda is a very honest and sincere person. I would believe anything she says before I would believe anyone else. Linda had every right to speak out. That's one of the many things I love about her. It's sort of a contradiction in a way........considering her shy personality and gentleness. But when you get her dander up.......watch out! She's just very passionate about certain issues that are important to her. That's kind of how I am, so I can definitely relate to her.
Last Edit: Jul 18, 2013 at 1:13pm by JasonKlose
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Jul 18, 2013 at 3:37pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 18, 2013 at 3:37pm
Quote by jasonk73:
I think there was (and still is even now) a lot of the late 1960s and 1970s still in her, the politically aware hippie who questions the wisdom and the veracity of people in high places, especially those (Bush + Cheney) who never earned it, fair and square anyway. In general, of course, Linda is a very shy, gentle person. But I don't think the social/political "beast" ever left her.
It damned sure didn't on July 17, 2004, that's for sure.
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Jul 18, 2013 at 3:37pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 18, 2013 at 3:37pm
Quote by jasonk73:
I can't say for sure what actually happened at Linda's concerts that
year since I wasn't at any of her shows and was not really a fan yet.
But from everything I've read in print and from what Linda said in an
interview, I'm absolutely convinced that the whole situation was blown
out of proportion. And Linda is a very honest and sincere person. I
would believe anything she says before I would believe anyone else.
Linda had every right to speak out. That's one of the many things I love
about her. It's sort of a contradiction in a way........considering her
shy personality and gentleness. But when you get her dander
up.......watch out! She's just very passionate about certain issues that
are important to her. That's kind of how I am, so I can definitely
relate to her.
year since I wasn't at any of her shows and was not really a fan yet.
But from everything I've read in print and from what Linda said in an
interview, I'm absolutely convinced that the whole situation was blown
out of proportion. And Linda is a very honest and sincere person. I
would believe anything she says before I would believe anyone else.
Linda had every right to speak out. That's one of the many things I love
about her. It's sort of a contradiction in a way........considering her
shy personality and gentleness. But when you get her dander
up.......watch out! She's just very passionate about certain issues that
are important to her. That's kind of how I am, so I can definitely
relate to her.
It damned sure didn't on July 17, 2004, that's for sure.
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Jul 18, 2013 at 4:39pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 18, 2013 at 4:39pm
I have to disagree here somewhat as I remember watching a lot of those in the electronic media practically fawning over Bush, overlooking his lies about Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction," his connecting the 9/11 dots to Saddam Hussein rather than Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden was the one who attacked us yet as far as Bush and Cheney were concerned, Saddam Hussein would pay for Bin Laden's crime. And after Bush exacted Hussein's blood for 9/11, well, he didn't give a rat's a** about catching Bin Laden. I believe he he even said he didn't care about catching Bin Laden. Why in the hell would he not want to catch or kill the s.o.b. who was responsible for more than the loss of 3000 lives in our country? Saddam Hussein was no great loss but he was made the scapegoat proxy for Bin laden's murders. And the so called liberal news media went along for the most part except for some here and there. I can't say specifically about the liberal print news media but I've always questioned the conservative right going on and on about the liberal print news media and how everyone of them is against them. But, the funny thing except for newspapers out of the northeast, specifically, the New York City and Washington DC areas, they never cited any real newspapers. And they suffered the delusion that every person who could think in this country took their marching orders from the newspapers in the northeast. I always found it extremely laughable that my state's largest metro newspaper - erxtremely conservative - went on and on about the liberal bias in the eastern press but never said one word about the extreme conservative bias in their own paper.
There was some liberals who rallied to Linda's defense but the number who didn't and who should've is shameful, and it's because the liberal media isn't as liberal as conservatives think. It's also not extremely conservative but there are more a**kissers in the news media who would jump through a hoop of fire just to get next to a conservative president and get the next big scoop. That's all they give a damn about and nothing else.
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Jul 18, 2013 at 4:39pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 18, 2013 at 4:39pm
Jul 18, 2013 at 7:13am eddiejinnj said:
the liberal media imo would have loved it also since it knocked whom they disliked and use Linda's celebrity to both discredit whom they did not like and maybe also have the benefit of promoting the movie. there are advantages on both sides almost like a legal case in the court of opinion. it just makes common sense and not based on my personal opinions. eddiejinnj
the liberal media imo would have loved it also since it knocked whom they disliked and use Linda's celebrity to both discredit whom they did not like and maybe also have the benefit of promoting the movie. there are advantages on both sides almost like a legal case in the court of opinion. it just makes common sense and not based on my personal opinions. eddiejinnj
There was some liberals who rallied to Linda's defense but the number who didn't and who should've is shameful, and it's because the liberal media isn't as liberal as conservatives think. It's also not extremely conservative but there are more a**kissers in the news media who would jump through a hoop of fire just to get next to a conservative president and get the next big scoop. That's all they give a damn about and nothing else.
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Jul 19, 2013 at 4:56am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 19, 2013 at 4:56am
well, all I know is that linda was in the news again. the press tried to play it up as another Dixie Chicks incident but it wasn't. A few people may have left when she did the dedication but it was the encore and many times people leave towards the end anyway. just a thought. there may have been a few that left because of the dedication but that could happen if kid rock disses the current president. so most of the audience thought it no big deal as well as linda herself. the report of it did publicize the movie and obviously a celebrity liked it. so again both quote sides had reason to use it and also it might have been used to legitimize the Dixie Chicks incident by stating another celebrity agrees with what they basically said. of course there were some that thought it disrespectful to diss the president and it was not respectful. there are people who revere the office so much that showing quote disrespect is un-American no matter who the president is. we are entitled to free speech in this country and imo any president is up for scrutiny as long as national security is not effected or such scrutiny makes us look weak in the world's eye. I am playing devil's advocate here and trying to put an objective slant to it and all the reasons the quote "incident" was publicized. eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2013 at 5:55am by eddiejinnj
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Jul 19, 2013 at 4:56am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 19, 2013 at 4:56am
well, all I know is that linda was in the news again. the press tried to play it up as another Dixie Chicks incident but it wasn't. A few people may have left when she did the dedication but it was the encore and many times people leave towards the end anyway. just a thought. there may have been a few that left because of the dedication but that could happen if kid rock disses the current president. so most of the audience thought it no big deal as well as linda herself. the report of it did publicize the movie and obviously a celebrity liked it. so again both quote sides had reason to use it and also it might have been used to legitimize the Dixie Chicks incident by stating another celebrity agrees with what they basically said. of course there were some that thought it disrespectful to diss the president and it was not respectful. there are people who revere the office so much that showing quote disrespect is un-American no matter who the president is. we are entitled to free speech in this country and imo any president is up for scrutiny as long as national security is not effected or such scrutiny makes us look weak in the world's eye. I am playing devil's advocate here and trying to put an objective slant to it and all the reasons the quote "incident" was publicized. eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2013 at 5:55am by eddiejinnj
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Jul 19, 2013 at 7:19am QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 19, 2013 at 7:19am
Quote by eddieinnj:
There is a distinct difference between respecting the office of the presidency and respecting the guy who sits in it; and it's a difference that, in the minds of Bush/Cheney fanatics, didn't exist. But it clearly got under their skin, since Bush didn't win that office fair and square; and, above all else, they knew he didn't win that office fair and square, so they were always on the defensive by being on the offense against any and all comers. If you dissed Their Boy, even if it was to just praise a film that was hypercritical of the guy (as Linda did), let alone what Natalie Maines did, then you basically disrespected the office of the Presidency and were thus disloyal to the country. A crock of s**t to be sure, but Linda didn't care, as well she shouldn't have.
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2013 at 9:44am by erik
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Jul 19, 2013 at 7:19am QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 19, 2013 at 7:19am
Quote by eddieinnj:
of course there were some that thought it disrespectful to diss the president and it was not respectful. there are people who revere the office so much that showing quote disrespect is un-American no matter who the president is. we are entitled to free speech in this country and imo any president is up for scrutiny as long as national security is not effected or such scrutiny makes us look weak in the world's eye. I am playing devil's advocate here and trying to put an objective slant
to it and all the reasons the quote "incident" was publicized.
to it and all the reasons the quote "incident" was publicized.
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2013 at 9:44am by erik
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Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am
GOOD READING FROM THE OLD FORUM (A VERY POPULAR THREAD): NO, YOU SHUT UP TOUR
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2013 at 9:17am by the Scribe
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Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am
GOOD READING FROM THE OLD FORUM (A VERY POPULAR THREAD): NO, YOU SHUT UP TOUR
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2013 at 9:17am by the Scribe
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Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am
I agree that the Office of the President is separate from the occupant of the office. I was a Federal employee back in the Reagan era, and I wish discussing this with my former supervisor during the Iran Contra mess. He was saying that you have to respect the President and I responded that the occupant of the office should not automatically gain respect.. it has to be earned..
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Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am
I agree that the Office of the President is separate from the occupant of the office. I was a Federal employee back in the Reagan era, and I wish discussing this with my former supervisor during the Iran Contra mess. He was saying that you have to respect the President and I responded that the occupant of the office should not automatically gain respect.. it has to be earned..
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Jul 19, 2013 at 1:51pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 19, 2013 at 1:51pm
to be quite honest Bush himself really never addressed in public or media defensiveness or ill will against his detractors etc maybe somewhat towards the end. I thought that he should have been on the tube more but he seemed to just go on and do what he thought was the best he could. I again am not putting my personal opinion other than to say that he should have used the media more. after the first electon being as contentious as it was, he was decidedly reelected so I guess not that many people were as upset perhaps as you think. eddiejinnj
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Jul 19, 2013 at 1:51pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 19, 2013 at 1:51pm
to be quite honest Bush himself really never addressed in public or media defensiveness or ill will against his detractors etc maybe somewhat towards the end. I thought that he should have been on the tube more but he seemed to just go on and do what he thought was the best he could. I again am not putting my personal opinion other than to say that he should have used the media more. after the first electon being as contentious as it was, he was decidedly reelected so I guess not that many people were as upset perhaps as you think. eddiejinnj
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Jul 19, 2013 at 3:01pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 19, 2013 at 3:01pm
This is what I feel about whoever the president is, regardless of whether they are a Democrat or a Republican. The respect has to be earned and not automatically given. Politicians should be working for all of us, and not just those who elected them. In Dubya Bush's case, since he stole the election with the aid of the Supremes, he should've been bending over backwards to get everyone behind him, including those who opposed him. Instead, the smirker claimed a mandate and political capital he didn't have and did what he wanted. He went into his presidency with a vendetta against Saddam Hussein and was looking for any excuse he could find that would justify his going into Iraq and take him out. It's enough to make me believe Osama Bin Laden was Bush's partner-in-crime rather than a loose terrorist lunatic.
What was especially galling was that when it was clear that Bush and Cheney were lying at every turn, the talking heads of hate radio and hate-TV, and the conservative politicians in the senate and congress, had all said during Clinton's impeachment, that they would never stand for one of their own lying. Well, they not only stood, they cheered, whistled, clapped amd no doubt hollered out "You da man!" to the smirker. When Cheney let out with an audible "F**k you," it was again met with more cheering, handclapping, whistling from the extreme right.
But, where was the liberal news media when all of this was going on? To hear the talking heads of hate radio spew it, the liberal media was everywhere, trying to get poor ol' Bush and Cheney It was the same when the Dixie Chicks blasted Bush. They had no major support from the liberal news media. Likewise, with Linda's run in with Bozo the Republican Clown at the Aladdin, all because of a song dedication, the liberal news media was conspicuous by their absence. I suspect they were afraid to criticize Bush because of Bush's popularity with the public, based on the false idea that he was going after Bin Laden and Al Qaida. Bush made the people feel secure, although in stifling speech critical of Bush and Cheney, we were in more danger from Bush and Cheney and the extremists on the right than from Bin Laden.
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Jul 19, 2013 at 3:01pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 19, 2013 at 3:01pm
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Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am @robertaxel said:
I agree that the Office of the President is separate from the occupant of the office. I was a Federal employee back in the Reagan era, and I wish discussing this with my former supervisor during the Iran Contra mess. He was saying that you have to respect the President and I responded that the occupant of the office should not automatically gain respect.. it has to be earned..
Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am @robertaxel said:
I agree that the Office of the President is separate from the occupant of the office. I was a Federal employee back in the Reagan era, and I wish discussing this with my former supervisor during the Iran Contra mess. He was saying that you have to respect the President and I responded that the occupant of the office should not automatically gain respect.. it has to be earned..
What was especially galling was that when it was clear that Bush and Cheney were lying at every turn, the talking heads of hate radio and hate-TV, and the conservative politicians in the senate and congress, had all said during Clinton's impeachment, that they would never stand for one of their own lying. Well, they not only stood, they cheered, whistled, clapped amd no doubt hollered out "You da man!" to the smirker. When Cheney let out with an audible "F**k you," it was again met with more cheering, handclapping, whistling from the extreme right.
But, where was the liberal news media when all of this was going on? To hear the talking heads of hate radio spew it, the liberal media was everywhere, trying to get poor ol' Bush and Cheney It was the same when the Dixie Chicks blasted Bush. They had no major support from the liberal news media. Likewise, with Linda's run in with Bozo the Republican Clown at the Aladdin, all because of a song dedication, the liberal news media was conspicuous by their absence. I suspect they were afraid to criticize Bush because of Bush's popularity with the public, based on the false idea that he was going after Bin Laden and Al Qaida. Bush made the people feel secure, although in stifling speech critical of Bush and Cheney, we were in more danger from Bush and Cheney and the extremists on the right than from Bin Laden.
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Jul 19, 2013 at 3:02pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 19, 2013 at 3:02pm
That was very good reading...thanks for reposting!
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Jul 19, 2013 at 3:02pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 19, 2013 at 3:02pm
Jul 19, 2013 at 9:16am the Scribe said:
GOOD READING FROM THE OLD FORUM (A VERY POPULAR THREAD): NO, YOU SHUT UP TOUR
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
GOOD READING FROM THE OLD FORUM (A VERY POPULAR THREAD): NO, YOU SHUT UP TOUR
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
That was very good reading...thanks for reposting!
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Jul 19, 2013 at 3:10pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 19, 2013 at 3:10pm
Quote by sliderocker
And one can't discount their own Bottom Line; it was better to toe the right-wing doctrine (however much they might have hated it) so that Bush wouldn't use the Nuclear Option and go after them with the FCC, as Nixon had done with his (endless supply of) enemies back in the early 1970s with the IRS. It all goes back to Money, or rather the love of money.
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Jul 19, 2013 at 3:10pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 19, 2013 at 3:10pm
Quote by sliderocker
I suspect they were afraid to criticize Bush because of Bush's
popularity with the public, based on the false idea that he was going
after Bin Laden and Al Qaida. Bush made the people feel secure, although
in stifling speech critical of Bush and Cheney, we were in more danger
from Bush and Cheney and the extremists on the right than from Bin
Laden.
popularity with the public, based on the false idea that he was going
after Bin Laden and Al Qaida. Bush made the people feel secure, although
in stifling speech critical of Bush and Cheney, we were in more danger
from Bush and Cheney and the extremists on the right than from Bin
Laden.
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Jul 19, 2013 at 5:43pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 19, 2013 at 5:43pm
Jul 19, 2013 at 3:10pm erik said:
And one can't discount their own Bottom Line; it was better to toe the right-wing doctrine (however much they might have hated it) so that Bush wouldn't use the Nuclear Option and go after them with the FCC, as Nixon had done with his (endless supply of) enemies back in the early 1970s with the IRS. It all goes back to Money, or rather the love of money.
And one can't discount their own Bottom Line; it was better to toe the right-wing doctrine (however much they might have hated it) so that Bush wouldn't use the Nuclear Option and go after them with the FCC, as Nixon had done with his (endless supply of) enemies back in the early 1970s with the IRS. It all goes back to Money, or rather the love of money.
Bush certainly had a "I don't give a damn what you think," when it came to those who spoke out against him. He should've cared in the extreme since his presidency was under the cloud of having obtained it through theft. He should've cared enough about the presidency during the post-election/pre-oath period in which he and Gore were battling for Florida, to have said, "I don't want to win the presidency in this manner. Count the votes as you think the voters intended them. If I win, I win but if I lose, people won't think me a crook." But, it was obvious he wanted the presidency through any means in which he could get it, and if it meant obtaining the presidency through theft, so what?
But, I still don't believe the news media feared Bush using the nuclear option, going to the FCC. I think the news media had changed around a lot from the days when Nixon was done in by Woodward and Bernstein in the Watergate scandal. As long as the news media was along for the ride, I think Bush or Cheney or someone working for them could've committed murder and the news media wouldn't have bothered reporting it. I thought they were complicit in covering for Bush-Cheney and still think it's that way through the present day.
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Jul 19, 2013 at 6:17pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 19, 2013 at 6:17pm
I suppose people were really caught off-guard by Linda's "outburst" on the Aladdin stage, because she had not made any actual appearances in public that anyone could remember since her very brief millennial New Year's Eve appearance in Los Angeles. But unlike the Dixie Chicks, where few if any really knew up to their Incident where they stood politically, with Linda, her political leanings were not exactly state secrets.
Forget the fact that she and Jerry Brown were an item back in The Day. Her activism in anti-nuclear and pro-environment stands, and the fact that she gave donations to very liberal (usually Democratic) political candidates over the decades should have put everyone on notice that she was no fan of Dubya. But it does show you the tendency of the people in this country to forget, or to let their brains rot. As H.L. Mencken said once: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." It's funny in one way, but also tragic in another (IMHO).
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Jul 19, 2013 at 6:17pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 19, 2013 at 6:17pm
I suppose people were really caught off-guard by Linda's "outburst" on the Aladdin stage, because she had not made any actual appearances in public that anyone could remember since her very brief millennial New Year's Eve appearance in Los Angeles. But unlike the Dixie Chicks, where few if any really knew up to their Incident where they stood politically, with Linda, her political leanings were not exactly state secrets.
Forget the fact that she and Jerry Brown were an item back in The Day. Her activism in anti-nuclear and pro-environment stands, and the fact that she gave donations to very liberal (usually Democratic) political candidates over the decades should have put everyone on notice that she was no fan of Dubya. But it does show you the tendency of the people in this country to forget, or to let their brains rot. As H.L. Mencken said once: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." It's funny in one way, but also tragic in another (IMHO).
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Jul 20, 2013 at 4:35am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 4:35am
all I know is life is perception and heard nothing but criticism to the point of brutal in the media. the issues re: the 2000 election were certainly covered and it was very out there in the media that some people believe what sliderocker said. the whole time the media called him an idiot. so if that is a media darling that they protected and feared I don't know. the people re-elected him in 2004 that is all I will say!!!!!!! eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 20, 2013 at 4:37am by eddiejinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 4:35am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 4:35am
all I know is life is perception and heard nothing but criticism to the point of brutal in the media. the issues re: the 2000 election were certainly covered and it was very out there in the media that some people believe what sliderocker said. the whole time the media called him an idiot. so if that is a media darling that they protected and feared I don't know. the people re-elected him in 2004 that is all I will say!!!!!!! eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 20, 2013 at 4:37am by eddiejinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 10:29am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 20, 2013 at 10:29am
True, some in the news media called Bush an idiot, but so did some private citizens, including Linda. But, all you've got to do is compare how Bush was treated versus the way Nixon was treated. Nixon was disliked from the start and when Watergate happened, the news media really went after him with a lynch mob mentality. Now, look at Bush. In the wake of 9/11, Bush came up with reason (or lie) after reason (or lie) why the US was taking the war to Bin Laden and Al Qaida via Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with attacking us. Bush and his team handled the emergency situation from the hurricane Katrina storm in the most inept fashion that a president. And someone in the Bush administration, watching the reports of the storm on tv, said it was like watching a movie!
The way Bush handled things as president made it easy to call him an idiot, but maybe the reason the news media didn't go after him was because they thought he was an idiot instead of a manipulator. As for his re-election in 2004, well, he was so inept he really shouldn't have been rewarded with a second term, but his handlers and the extreme right news media (Fox News) and the talking heads of hate radio were all playing on people's fear about terrorists and how soft Kerry would be in dealing with them if he was elected president. They played the "you don't change horses in the middle of a war" card. It wasn't possible to know what Kerry would or wouldn't do as president so the idea he would be soft was basically a lie. And came the 2008 election, the Republicans and the extreme right news media and hate radio were playing the fear card about how Obama was a Muslim, would be invoking Muslim laws and making peace overtures to Al Qaida and the Taliban. Instead, Bin Laden was killed during Obama's first term but few on the right could be bothered to let him take the credit. They insisted he share the credit with Bush because it was things like Dick Cheney's wonderful waterboarding torture that got us the information that led to Bin Laden's whereabouts and resulted in him being killed.
But, Republicans need new blood, new ideas. They can't play the fear card and going back for a blast from the past is not a sound strategy for winning an election. With the talk of brother Jeb Bush running for president, the last thing this country needs is another Bush in the White House. There should be a limit on family members running because it gives the impression of an aristocracy. And as far as idiots are concerned, Republicans should stay the hell away from Sarah Palin as by the time she was through with the country, it would be destroyed and in bankruptcy. Republicans need to run people who love their country and not hate it with a passion, which too many tea party types seem to do.
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Jul 20, 2013 at 10:29am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 20, 2013 at 10:29am
Jul 20, 2013 at 4:35am eddiejinnj said:
all I know is life is perception and heard nothing but criticism to the point of brutal in the media. the issues re: the 2000 election were certainly covered and it was very out there in the media that some people believe what sliderocker said. the whole time the media called him an idiot. so if that is a media darling that they protected and feared I don't know. the people re-elected him in 2004 that is all I will say!!!!!!! eddiejinnj
all I know is life is perception and heard nothing but criticism to the point of brutal in the media. the issues re: the 2000 election were certainly covered and it was very out there in the media that some people believe what sliderocker said. the whole time the media called him an idiot. so if that is a media darling that they protected and feared I don't know. the people re-elected him in 2004 that is all I will say!!!!!!! eddiejinnj
The way Bush handled things as president made it easy to call him an idiot, but maybe the reason the news media didn't go after him was because they thought he was an idiot instead of a manipulator. As for his re-election in 2004, well, he was so inept he really shouldn't have been rewarded with a second term, but his handlers and the extreme right news media (Fox News) and the talking heads of hate radio were all playing on people's fear about terrorists and how soft Kerry would be in dealing with them if he was elected president. They played the "you don't change horses in the middle of a war" card. It wasn't possible to know what Kerry would or wouldn't do as president so the idea he would be soft was basically a lie. And came the 2008 election, the Republicans and the extreme right news media and hate radio were playing the fear card about how Obama was a Muslim, would be invoking Muslim laws and making peace overtures to Al Qaida and the Taliban. Instead, Bin Laden was killed during Obama's first term but few on the right could be bothered to let him take the credit. They insisted he share the credit with Bush because it was things like Dick Cheney's wonderful waterboarding torture that got us the information that led to Bin Laden's whereabouts and resulted in him being killed.
But, Republicans need new blood, new ideas. They can't play the fear card and going back for a blast from the past is not a sound strategy for winning an election. With the talk of brother Jeb Bush running for president, the last thing this country needs is another Bush in the White House. There should be a limit on family members running because it gives the impression of an aristocracy. And as far as idiots are concerned, Republicans should stay the hell away from Sarah Palin as by the time she was through with the country, it would be destroyed and in bankruptcy. Republicans need to run people who love their country and not hate it with a passion, which too many tea party types seem to do.
pg. 2
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Jul 20, 2013 at 11:03am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 11:03am
am not sure a comparison of Nixon to bush and the media treatment is apples to apples imo. I think a more accurate comparison would be to look from bush sr on including our current president. it would be an interesting analysis!!!! eddiejinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 11:03am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 11:03am
am not sure a comparison of Nixon to bush and the media treatment is apples to apples imo. I think a more accurate comparison would be to look from bush sr on including our current president. it would be an interesting analysis!!!! eddiejinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 12:23pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 20, 2013 at 12:23pm
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As far as comparing Nixon to Dubya, I think it's an apt comparison for the news media because Nixon had it far worse than what Bush Jr. had it with the same media. When it comes to the news media, I think they have grown soft on going after the Republican presidents. That started with Reagan. Reagan's Iran-Contra scandal was a far more serious scandal than what Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky ever was, and yet there was no effort to impeach Reagan over the Iran-Contra scandal. Dubya's dishonesty with the reasons for attacking Iraq rather than Bin laden and Al Qaida and the torturing of "enemny combatants" by such means as waterboarding should've raised serious questions about him as a leader. That he lied and wasn't subjected to the possibility of being impeached for those lies is something we shouldn't have been willing to overlook. Clinton's impeachment was for a far less serious lie about an affair. It would've been one thing if Bush Jr. had remained focused on capturing or killing Bin Laden but going after Hussein, again, no great loss, but neither he nor Iraq were the ones who attacked us. And Bush spent billions on a war destroying that country, and then had to spend billions more to rebuild, practically destroying our economy in the process. Bush should be the reason for not letting the Republicans anywhere near the White House but they'll probably get back there again, much to our detriment.
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Jul 20, 2013 at 12:23pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 20, 2013 at 12:23pm
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Jul 20, 2013 at 11:03am eddiejinnj said:
am not sure a comparison of Nixon to bush and the media treatment is apples to apples imo. I think a more accurate comparison would be to look from bush sr on including our current president. it would be an interesting analysis!!!! eddiejinnj
am not sure a comparison of Nixon to bush and the media treatment is apples to apples imo. I think a more accurate comparison would be to look from bush sr on including our current president. it would be an interesting analysis!!!! eddiejinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 3:49pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 3:49pm
lying to a grand jury is a federal offense. if he just lied to Hillary than it is just a lie about an affair. when I was a mental health professional, if I was caught having sexual relations with an intern on company hours I would have had 15 mins to clear my desk and be escorted out. my focusing on this and giving that opinion does not comment or compare this to what any other president did (well he did this and that). It is hard to not be loyal to who/what you believe (as I am with Linda re: my emotional loyalty to her music vs especially other female vocalists). I was just saying that it would be an interesting analysis slide. of which, you gave us some of yours. open debate is what makes this country great. thanks for the contribution. it is great to see some new folks on here too!!!! eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 20, 2013 at 3:59pm by eddiejinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 3:49pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 3:49pm
lying to a grand jury is a federal offense. if he just lied to Hillary than it is just a lie about an affair. when I was a mental health professional, if I was caught having sexual relations with an intern on company hours I would have had 15 mins to clear my desk and be escorted out. my focusing on this and giving that opinion does not comment or compare this to what any other president did (well he did this and that). It is hard to not be loyal to who/what you believe (as I am with Linda re: my emotional loyalty to her music vs especially other female vocalists). I was just saying that it would be an interesting analysis slide. of which, you gave us some of yours. open debate is what makes this country great. thanks for the contribution. it is great to see some new folks on here too!!!! eddiejinnj
Last Edit: Jul 20, 2013 at 3:59pm by eddiejinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 4:58pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 20, 2013 at 4:58pm
Linda did say that she was disappointed with the way Clinton handled the Monica Lewinsky scandal, but she remained a strong supporter. I daresay that politics will only be dealt with peripherally in her memoir (perhaps a passing reference to the Dust-Up In The Desert).
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Jul 20, 2013 at 4:58pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 20, 2013 at 4:58pm
Linda did say that she was disappointed with the way Clinton handled the Monica Lewinsky scandal, but she remained a strong supporter. I daresay that politics will only be dealt with peripherally in her memoir (perhaps a passing reference to the Dust-Up In The Desert).
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Jul 20, 2013 at 5:02pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 5:02pm
Las Vegas Mercury News- July 29, 2004- cover
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Jul 20, 2013 at 5:02pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 5:02pm
Las Vegas Mercury News- July 29, 2004- cover
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Jul 20, 2013 at 5:04pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 20, 2013 at 5:04pm
Always nice for Linda to hear from her "fans" in the press (NOT!!) (LOL)
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Jul 20, 2013 at 5:04pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 20, 2013 at 5:04pm
Always nice for Linda to hear from her "fans" in the press (NOT!!) (LOL)
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Jul 20, 2013 at 6:33pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 6:33pm
she seems to be focusing on her career and it seems by the reviews how much impact she had and her different decisions she has made in her musical career. eddiejjinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 6:33pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 20, 2013 at 6:33pm
she seems to be focusing on her career and it seems by the reviews how much impact she had and her different decisions she has made in her musical career. eddiejjinnj
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Jul 20, 2013 at 7:07pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 7:07pm
Here are the interior pages for the cover posted above. I can't believe I've been sitting on this material for nine years and didn't get it posted to the website.
Linda Ronstadt Las Vegas
Even if no one will be watching us, why would we even want to do it in the road?
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Jul 20, 2013 at 7:07pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 7:07pm
Here are the interior pages for the cover posted above. I can't believe I've been sitting on this material for nine years and didn't get it posted to the website.
Linda Ronstadt Las Vegas
Even if no one will be watching us, why would we even want to do it in the road?
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Jul 20, 2013 at 8:12pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Robert Morse on Jul 20, 2013 at 8:12pm
Reading the commentary from the three at the Vegas show it just goes to show that perception feeds these stories. At times it sounds like each of the three were at different shows. Then add in what the press fabricates. Let's face it none of us inows what really happened!
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Jul 20, 2013 at 8:12pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Robert Morse on Jul 20, 2013 at 8:12pm
Reading the commentary from the three at the Vegas show it just goes to show that perception feeds these stories. At times it sounds like each of the three were at different shows. Then add in what the press fabricates. Let's face it none of us inows what really happened!
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Jul 20, 2013 at 8:47pm QuotePost OptionsPost by TP on Jul 20, 2013 at 8:47pm
I find it amazing that someone thinks they should deserve a refund because they sat through an entire concert and then were upset about a couple of sentences uttered introducing an encore song. As Judge Judy would say, they ate the steak. If you eat the food, no refund.
Now on the other hand, if someone had listened to a couple of songs and then went out and asked for a refund, I would say they might have deserved one. One of the folks at the concert said Linda came out and said she saw a billboard saying she would be singing her greatest hits, and that was news to her, as she would be singing standards. The concert was advertised as Linda Ronstadt singing her greatest hits, and that's not really what she was delivering.
Most of those email comments were idiots stirred up by lies they heard on conservative "news" programs.
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Jul 20, 2013 at 8:47pm QuotePost OptionsPost by TP on Jul 20, 2013 at 8:47pm
I find it amazing that someone thinks they should deserve a refund because they sat through an entire concert and then were upset about a couple of sentences uttered introducing an encore song. As Judge Judy would say, they ate the steak. If you eat the food, no refund.
Now on the other hand, if someone had listened to a couple of songs and then went out and asked for a refund, I would say they might have deserved one. One of the folks at the concert said Linda came out and said she saw a billboard saying she would be singing her greatest hits, and that was news to her, as she would be singing standards. The concert was advertised as Linda Ronstadt singing her greatest hits, and that's not really what she was delivering.
Most of those email comments were idiots stirred up by lies they heard on conservative "news" programs.
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Jul 20, 2013 at 9:04pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 9:04pm
Here is a follow-up editorial that was in the next issue of the Las Vegas Mercury News:
Linda Ronstadt Las Vegas
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Jul 20, 2013 at 9:04pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 9:04pm
Here is a follow-up editorial that was in the next issue of the Las Vegas Mercury News:
Linda Ronstadt Las Vegas
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Drunk and dirty, don't you know
Jul 20, 2013 at 9:13pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 9:13pm
And here is another article from the same follow-up issue, which I confess, I have yet to read:
Linda Ronstadt darling of Las Vegas
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Drunk and dirty, don't you know
Jul 20, 2013 at 9:13pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 9:13pm
And here is another article from the same follow-up issue, which I confess, I have yet to read:
Linda Ronstadt darling of Las Vegas
Partridge
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Jul 20, 2013 at 9:22pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 9:22pm
And again, from the same issue, a letter from a reader:
Linda Ronstadt Queen of Pop
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Jul 20, 2013 at 9:22pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Jul 20, 2013 at 9:22pm
And again, from the same issue, a letter from a reader:
Linda Ronstadt Queen of Pop
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 21, 2013 at 12:24pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 21, 2013 at 12:24pm
Clinton lied about his affair but the thing for me was that it was all about politics and revenge by the Republican party, sore because they didn't win the White House. Clinton's denial of the affair had nothing to do with the running our country but all Republicans seemingly could do was think about some way they could oust Clinton from office. That started the first day Clinton took office. What the Republicans did was as close to a coup d'etat in our country as we ever came, and bordered on being an act of treason. Clinton should've owned up to the affair but I thought the denial was more about saving his marriage than anything else, yet I think that even if he had owned up, the Republicans would not have dropped the matter and probably would've been more vigorous in their attempts to remove Clinton from office.
But, here again, if Clinton's affair was wrong, was George "Dubya" Bush's theft of the presidency in 2004 any less heinous an act or his attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and the torturing of "enemy combatants" for information? "Comrade Dubya" (as I've always referred to Bush Jr. as, as the "Dubya" nickname sounded communistic in nature) didn't win the 2004 election in an honest fashion, not when he stole the position with the help of Katherine Harris in Florida and the hanging chads and the Supremes. If she and Florida couldn't tell a voter meant their vote for Gore, why was there never any mention of hanging chad votes for Bush that she likewise threw out? I'd almost be willing to bet any hanging chad for Bush was counted rather than thrown out. Bush would've had no problem from me going after Bin Laden and Al Qaida as they were the ones who attacked us, but Hussein (again, no great loss) and Iraq, who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. And the torturing of the "enemy combatants" is still a black eye which did some major damage to our reputation - made us look like a bully, but some in our country don't give a damn about reputation or treating the enemy fairly, but they sure expect any enemy to respect and fear us and treat our soldiers fairly if they're held prisoner.
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 21, 2013 at 12:24pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 21, 2013 at 12:24pm
Jul 20, 2013 at 3:49pm eddiejinnj said:
lying to a grand jury is a federal offense. if he just lied to Hillary than it is just a lie about an affair. when I was a mental health professional, if I was caught having sexual relations with an intern on company hours I would have had 15 mins to clear my desk and be escorted out. my focusing on this and giving that opinion does not comment or compare this to what any other president did (well he did this and that). It is hard to not be loyal to who/what you believe (as I am with Linda re: my emotional loyalty to her music vs especially other female vocalists). I was just saying that it would be an interesting analysis slide. of which, you gave us some of yours. open debate is what makes this country great. thanks for the contribution. it is great to see some new folks on here too!!!! eddiejinnj
lying to a grand jury is a federal offense. if he just lied to Hillary than it is just a lie about an affair. when I was a mental health professional, if I was caught having sexual relations with an intern on company hours I would have had 15 mins to clear my desk and be escorted out. my focusing on this and giving that opinion does not comment or compare this to what any other president did (well he did this and that). It is hard to not be loyal to who/what you believe (as I am with Linda re: my emotional loyalty to her music vs especially other female vocalists). I was just saying that it would be an interesting analysis slide. of which, you gave us some of yours. open debate is what makes this country great. thanks for the contribution. it is great to see some new folks on here too!!!! eddiejinnj
Clinton lied about his affair but the thing for me was that it was all about politics and revenge by the Republican party, sore because they didn't win the White House. Clinton's denial of the affair had nothing to do with the running our country but all Republicans seemingly could do was think about some way they could oust Clinton from office. That started the first day Clinton took office. What the Republicans did was as close to a coup d'etat in our country as we ever came, and bordered on being an act of treason. Clinton should've owned up to the affair but I thought the denial was more about saving his marriage than anything else, yet I think that even if he had owned up, the Republicans would not have dropped the matter and probably would've been more vigorous in their attempts to remove Clinton from office.
But, here again, if Clinton's affair was wrong, was George "Dubya" Bush's theft of the presidency in 2004 any less heinous an act or his attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and the torturing of "enemy combatants" for information? "Comrade Dubya" (as I've always referred to Bush Jr. as, as the "Dubya" nickname sounded communistic in nature) didn't win the 2004 election in an honest fashion, not when he stole the position with the help of Katherine Harris in Florida and the hanging chads and the Supremes. If she and Florida couldn't tell a voter meant their vote for Gore, why was there never any mention of hanging chad votes for Bush that she likewise threw out? I'd almost be willing to bet any hanging chad for Bush was counted rather than thrown out. Bush would've had no problem from me going after Bin Laden and Al Qaida as they were the ones who attacked us, but Hussein (again, no great loss) and Iraq, who had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. And the torturing of the "enemy combatants" is still a black eye which did some major damage to our reputation - made us look like a bully, but some in our country don't give a damn about reputation or treating the enemy fairly, but they sure expect any enemy to respect and fear us and treat our soldiers fairly if they're held prisoner.
daveb
A Number and a Name
*
Jul 21, 2013 at 4:09pm QuotePost OptionsPost by daveb on Jul 21, 2013 at 4:09pm
Yes. And despite Gingrich et al continuing to call Clinton "radical" and "extreme left", what they didn't really want to admit but in their hearts they had to know, was that Clinton had completely outsmarted them. He had taken back the center, and succeeded at issues the repubs had been giving lip service to - balanced the budget - reformed welfare etc. Who can forget "The era of big government is over"
Of course it didn't take long for Bush to come along and squander the surplus and rack up huge deficits again.
But yeah, the impeachment was a continuation of the attack campaign that the right unleashed on the Clintons from day one and had nothing to do with our country.
So please do not even compare partisan Democrats with the right wing in this country. Impeachment? As a partisan attack? What could be more un-American? Impeachment had only once before been used in our nations history. And the articles that were being drawn up against Nixon were so serious that it was the Republicans that broke it to him that he had to resign.
Dave
A Number and a Name
*
Jul 21, 2013 at 4:09pm QuotePost OptionsPost by daveb on Jul 21, 2013 at 4:09pm
but the thing for me was that it was all about politics and revenge by the Republican party, sore because they didn't win the White House.
Of course it didn't take long for Bush to come along and squander the surplus and rack up huge deficits again.
But yeah, the impeachment was a continuation of the attack campaign that the right unleashed on the Clintons from day one and had nothing to do with our country.
So please do not even compare partisan Democrats with the right wing in this country. Impeachment? As a partisan attack? What could be more un-American? Impeachment had only once before been used in our nations history. And the articles that were being drawn up against Nixon were so serious that it was the Republicans that broke it to him that he had to resign.
Dave
eddiejinnj
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Jul 21, 2013 at 4:40pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 21, 2013 at 4:40pm
my take is that look at the target of almost all the posts in here. who is dissing who? should be a song title. lol. I will just keep my humor and keep reading on here!!!!! eddiejiinj
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Jul 21, 2013 at 4:40pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 21, 2013 at 4:40pm
my take is that look at the target of almost all the posts in here. who is dissing who? should be a song title. lol. I will just keep my humor and keep reading on here!!!!! eddiejiinj
the Scribe
Desperado
********************
Living off the chickens in my neighbor’s yard
Jul 22, 2013 at 10:04am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 22, 2013 at 10:04am
No one died when Clinton lied but the sad thing is when Clinton tried to kill bin Laden every Conservative and Republican protested with the slogan "No bombs for Monica" and they all began with their "wag the dog" talking points. Sadly, because of this and the impeachment Clinton said he was not so willing to act upon intelligence again regarding bin Laden because of the controversy it would stir up. That left bin Laden free for Bush and the Republicans to ignore right up until 9/11 so I blame them for what happened on that day and the huge mess since that stolen election. Bill Clinton however was an idiot himself by siding with the Republicans on NAFTA, the Welfare Reform disaster, deregulation of the Media, repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc. but his biggest mistake was refusing to hold the previous administration accountable for the Iran-Contra mess which ensured his adoption by George & Barbara Bush as their last and most favorite child. Those people who relentlessly attacked him would mostly have been in jail throughout his presidency as they were all operatives tied to the Reagan-Bush-Quayle criminal family. And Linda was right, Junior was and is an idiot. Just look at him on youtube giving viewers the finger, farting and other non-sensical stuff. To me he was a giggling murderer worse than most other sociopathic killers. And Obama too is an idiot. Like Clinton he refused to hold the Bush-Cheney Crime family accountable for their many crimes (as promised) and it is those same people going after him. Obama has no personal or political courage. Even though this Congress is just about the worst obstructionists in history Obama just seems to go along to get along and appears to be worried more about his own "skin" than doing the right thing. The political party structure must be dismantled. One term-term limits for all and get the money out of politics.
Last Edit: Jul 22, 2013 at 10:39am by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
Desperado
********************
Living off the chickens in my neighbor’s yard
Jul 22, 2013 at 10:04am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 22, 2013 at 10:04am
No one died when Clinton lied but the sad thing is when Clinton tried to kill bin Laden every Conservative and Republican protested with the slogan "No bombs for Monica" and they all began with their "wag the dog" talking points. Sadly, because of this and the impeachment Clinton said he was not so willing to act upon intelligence again regarding bin Laden because of the controversy it would stir up. That left bin Laden free for Bush and the Republicans to ignore right up until 9/11 so I blame them for what happened on that day and the huge mess since that stolen election. Bill Clinton however was an idiot himself by siding with the Republicans on NAFTA, the Welfare Reform disaster, deregulation of the Media, repeal of Glass-Steagall, etc. but his biggest mistake was refusing to hold the previous administration accountable for the Iran-Contra mess which ensured his adoption by George & Barbara Bush as their last and most favorite child. Those people who relentlessly attacked him would mostly have been in jail throughout his presidency as they were all operatives tied to the Reagan-Bush-Quayle criminal family. And Linda was right, Junior was and is an idiot. Just look at him on youtube giving viewers the finger, farting and other non-sensical stuff. To me he was a giggling murderer worse than most other sociopathic killers. And Obama too is an idiot. Like Clinton he refused to hold the Bush-Cheney Crime family accountable for their many crimes (as promised) and it is those same people going after him. Obama has no personal or political courage. Even though this Congress is just about the worst obstructionists in history Obama just seems to go along to get along and appears to be worried more about his own "skin" than doing the right thing. The political party structure must be dismantled. One term-term limits for all and get the money out of politics.
Last Edit: Jul 22, 2013 at 10:39am by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
eddiejinnj
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Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40am
I agree Re: the political party statement. it just is not serving the country. eddiejinnj
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Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 22, 2013 at 11:40am
I agree Re: the political party statement. it just is not serving the country. eddiejinnj
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 22, 2013 at 12:35pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 22, 2013 at 12:35pm
Part of the problem I think with Washington is that the politicians are entrenched, so there's nothing to be gained by making drastic change. As for Obama not having personal or political courage, recall that when Jimmy Carter was president, he was going to be the one who was going to bring change. He didn't, and the reason he didn't had less to do with him personally and more to do with the fact he was an "outsider." Carter could do nothing because he wasn't part of the Washington establishment. A big part of Obama's problem is that he wants to get along with the opposition and they keep knocking him back down. He should've gotten to the point already where he should be saying, "Enough of this sh*t!" and getting back in their faces. But, that's the problem we have with the bunch of Democrats in Washington: almost all are "Let's get along," rather than going for anything confrontational. And that, to me, enables the Republicans to keep doing what they're doing.
With regard to one-term term limits, is that really such a good idea? As what would there be to stop a political machine in any state from running political candidates who would be just like the person who held the office originally? Or the possibility that there would be so many people elected who didn't know what to do in running the government or came to Washington with the view that they were going to dismantle the government. One-term term limits (or the original idea of two-term term limits) is something I think more Republicans would favor than Democrats because they see it as a way to become the majority party rather than the minority party. In Oklahoma, we have term limits at the state level and before those term limits were imposed, we had a legislature in which the Democrats were the majority party. Now, with legislators restricted to two terms, the Republicans is the party in the majority, and they're doing the people no great favors.
I'd favor getting the money out of politics but here again, that's a problematical issue. It costs more money to run for public office than what the job pays, and we tend to elect those who spend the most money because they're able to make themselves more visible. Newspapers and magazines won't provide free ads and worse, there are newspapers which favor one political party over another, and some likely would refuse to provide "equal time" in their papers to the opposition. And how would the candidate who's trying to win have a fair chance if he or she is being ignored by the media? Look at the third party candidates we have every presidential election cycle. They are ignored by the news media, not invited to the presidential debates because they're not in either of the majority parties, and the news media which stages the debates deems them unelectable, so they can just stay home.
We need real change but that takes a majority of people, made up of liberal, conservative and middle of the road to make that change. It won't happen until enough of us can all get together and decide we have had enough, and say to those interested in preserving the status quo, "We ARE mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore!"
And we need to say to those who are intolerant, those who criticize people like Linda or Natalie for speaking out because they're a celebrities, "Yeah? Well, so what? It's their country too. If you don't like it, why don't you f--k'in' leave this country and go to some other place where intolerance of dissenting views is the norm?" I don't have a problem with those whose point of views are different from mine but I do have a problem with those who think that those who disagree with what they think should just remain silent. The country belongs to all of us, liberal, conservative and middle of the road, and no one should be telling another to shut up because they don't like their politics. I think we wouldn't have the problems we have with politics if more of us would speak out.
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 22, 2013 at 12:35pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 22, 2013 at 12:35pm
Jul 22, 2013 at 10:04am the Scribe said:
And Obama too is an idiot. Like Clinton he refused to hold the Bush-Cheney Crime family accountable for their many crimes (as promised) and it is those same people going after him. Obama has no personal or political courage. Even though this Congress is just about the worst obstructionists in history Obama just seems to go along to get along and appears to be worried more about his own "skin" than doing the right thing. The political party structure must be dismantled. One term-term limits for all and get the money out of politics.
And Obama too is an idiot. Like Clinton he refused to hold the Bush-Cheney Crime family accountable for their many crimes (as promised) and it is those same people going after him. Obama has no personal or political courage. Even though this Congress is just about the worst obstructionists in history Obama just seems to go along to get along and appears to be worried more about his own "skin" than doing the right thing. The political party structure must be dismantled. One term-term limits for all and get the money out of politics.
With regard to one-term term limits, is that really such a good idea? As what would there be to stop a political machine in any state from running political candidates who would be just like the person who held the office originally? Or the possibility that there would be so many people elected who didn't know what to do in running the government or came to Washington with the view that they were going to dismantle the government. One-term term limits (or the original idea of two-term term limits) is something I think more Republicans would favor than Democrats because they see it as a way to become the majority party rather than the minority party. In Oklahoma, we have term limits at the state level and before those term limits were imposed, we had a legislature in which the Democrats were the majority party. Now, with legislators restricted to two terms, the Republicans is the party in the majority, and they're doing the people no great favors.
I'd favor getting the money out of politics but here again, that's a problematical issue. It costs more money to run for public office than what the job pays, and we tend to elect those who spend the most money because they're able to make themselves more visible. Newspapers and magazines won't provide free ads and worse, there are newspapers which favor one political party over another, and some likely would refuse to provide "equal time" in their papers to the opposition. And how would the candidate who's trying to win have a fair chance if he or she is being ignored by the media? Look at the third party candidates we have every presidential election cycle. They are ignored by the news media, not invited to the presidential debates because they're not in either of the majority parties, and the news media which stages the debates deems them unelectable, so they can just stay home.
We need real change but that takes a majority of people, made up of liberal, conservative and middle of the road to make that change. It won't happen until enough of us can all get together and decide we have had enough, and say to those interested in preserving the status quo, "We ARE mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore!"
And we need to say to those who are intolerant, those who criticize people like Linda or Natalie for speaking out because they're a celebrities, "Yeah? Well, so what? It's their country too. If you don't like it, why don't you f--k'in' leave this country and go to some other place where intolerance of dissenting views is the norm?" I don't have a problem with those whose point of views are different from mine but I do have a problem with those who think that those who disagree with what they think should just remain silent. The country belongs to all of us, liberal, conservative and middle of the road, and no one should be telling another to shut up because they don't like their politics. I think we wouldn't have the problems we have with politics if more of us would speak out.
the Scribe
Desperado
********************
Jul 22, 2013 at 1:17pm QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 22, 2013 at 1:17pm
We didn't have career politicians at the start of the country. People came in to do their 2, 4, or 6 years and were gone. As far as money out of elections it is easy. All qualified candidates are publicly funded (only) and you have a clean election process so everyone has a good shot at winning. Voting is done by a runoff voting process. All quite easy and is done elsewhere.
I think we have enough smart "non-corporate" and "non-partisan" Americans who can come up with a fool proof clean elections process that the Supreme Court can't screw with. And runoff voting is a better way to elect someone:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting
This would stop the party machine and we could have issue politics and not party politics. Most Americans are operational Liberals and we can all agree on certain major things and then agree to disagree on the others or come to some concensus. Democracy is not easy. I would vote to get rid of the useless Senate and tweak some other things if need be. Something has to be done and sooner than later.
Last Edit: Jul 22, 2013 at 1:46pm by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 22, 2013 at 2:38pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 22, 2013 at 2:38pm
Public funding would be a good idea, provided the public would be spread out evenly among all parties, and not just to those with a D or R attached to their names. But, public funding would still involved taking money from the taxpayers and you know that idea is not going to go down well with those who think it's possible to have a government that runs without money. And even with public funding, you'd still have newspapers and magazines, radio and tv stations with certain political biases and animosity towards politicians they don't like, and unless something was done that mandated the media coverage had to be fair and impartial and balanced, we'd still be looking at certain candidates receiving preferential treatment and some candidates being ignored. I'm also not in favor of anything running afoul of the first amendment but we have to have some way to insure fairness in our elections.
As far as the politicians being limited to 2, 4 or 6 years, I'm still not in favor of single term politicians. They're no guarantee that we'll get a better politician out of the deal and no guarantee that a politician wouldn't sell his or her vote to the highest bidders possible. What I favored at one time was the politician having to face a vote of the people prior to his or her running for reelection. The politician would had to have scored a solid majority of voters before being able to run again. By solid, I mean getting an approval of two-thirds of the people voting. If he or she couldn't get that, they would be considered "fired" from the job and not eligible to run again. But, there's even problems with that as if someone is doing their job, do we really want to replace them?
I also favor a system where all people of voting age are required to vote in elections, with voting spread out over several days, with results not obtainable until everyone has voted. Safeguards would also be needed to insure there would be no chicanery, no switching the votes, no "I can't tell what the voter meant" hanging chads where the vote was clearly being cast for a certain candidate but for whatever reason, was not 100% spot on the mark. I'd make what happened in Florida in 2000 a federal crime - Harris should've been sent to jail for what she did. I agree something needs to happen sooner than later but I think we're going to be stuck in gridlock for some time.
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 22, 2013 at 2:38pm QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 22, 2013 at 2:38pm
Jul 22, 2013 at 1:17pm the Scribe said:
We didn't have career politicians at the start of the country. People came in to do their 2, 4, or 6 years and were gone. As far as money out of elections it is easy. All qualified candidates are publicly funded (only) and you have a clean election process so everyone has a good shot at winning. Voting is done by a runoff voting process. All quite easy and is done elsewhere.
I think we have enough smart "non-corporate" and "non-partisan" Americans who can come up with a fool proof clean elections process that the Supreme Court can't screw with. And runoff voting is a better way to elect someone:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting
This would stop the party machine and we could have issue politics and not party politics. Most Americans are operational Liberals and we can all agree on certain major things and then agree to disagree on the others or come to some concensus. Democracy is not easy. I would vote to get rid of the useless Senate and tweak some other things if need be. Something has to be done and sooner than later.
We didn't have career politicians at the start of the country. People came in to do their 2, 4, or 6 years and were gone. As far as money out of elections it is easy. All qualified candidates are publicly funded (only) and you have a clean election process so everyone has a good shot at winning. Voting is done by a runoff voting process. All quite easy and is done elsewhere.
I think we have enough smart "non-corporate" and "non-partisan" Americans who can come up with a fool proof clean elections process that the Supreme Court can't screw with. And runoff voting is a better way to elect someone:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting
This would stop the party machine and we could have issue politics and not party politics. Most Americans are operational Liberals and we can all agree on certain major things and then agree to disagree on the others or come to some concensus. Democracy is not easy. I would vote to get rid of the useless Senate and tweak some other things if need be. Something has to be done and sooner than later.
As far as the politicians being limited to 2, 4 or 6 years, I'm still not in favor of single term politicians. They're no guarantee that we'll get a better politician out of the deal and no guarantee that a politician wouldn't sell his or her vote to the highest bidders possible. What I favored at one time was the politician having to face a vote of the people prior to his or her running for reelection. The politician would had to have scored a solid majority of voters before being able to run again. By solid, I mean getting an approval of two-thirds of the people voting. If he or she couldn't get that, they would be considered "fired" from the job and not eligible to run again. But, there's even problems with that as if someone is doing their job, do we really want to replace them?
I also favor a system where all people of voting age are required to vote in elections, with voting spread out over several days, with results not obtainable until everyone has voted. Safeguards would also be needed to insure there would be no chicanery, no switching the votes, no "I can't tell what the voter meant" hanging chads where the vote was clearly being cast for a certain candidate but for whatever reason, was not 100% spot on the mark. I'd make what happened in Florida in 2000 a federal crime - Harris should've been sent to jail for what she did. I agree something needs to happen sooner than later but I think we're going to be stuck in gridlock for some time.
eddiejinnj
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Jul 22, 2013 at 3:30pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 22, 2013 at 3:30pm
well anybody hear any good Linda news today? lol eddiejinnj
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Jul 22, 2013 at 3:30pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 22, 2013 at 3:30pm
well anybody hear any good Linda news today? lol eddiejinnj
erik
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Jul 22, 2013 at 4:09pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 22, 2013 at 4:09pm
Quote by eddieinnj:
She's still alive, for what that's worth.
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Jul 22, 2013 at 4:09pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 22, 2013 at 4:09pm
Quote by eddieinnj:
well anybody hear any good Linda news today? lol eddiejinnj
eddiejinnj
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Jul 22, 2013 at 4:21pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 22, 2013 at 4:21pm
a lot to me lol. eddiejinnj
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Jul 22, 2013 at 4:21pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 22, 2013 at 4:21pm
a lot to me lol. eddiejinnj
Robert Axel
Deleted Member
Jul 22, 2013 at 5:11pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 at 5:11pm
She is touring to promote her book... as good news as we can hope for...
Deleted Member
Jul 22, 2013 at 5:11pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 at 5:11pm
She is touring to promote her book... as good news as we can hope for...
70smusicfan
A Rose in the Garden
****
Jul 22, 2013 at 8:23pm QuotePost OptionsPost by 70smusicfan on Jul 22, 2013 at 8:23pm
Dear Mr. Partridge - Thank you very much for the articles - helps to put some perspective on the "Dust-Up in the Desert."
A Rose in the Garden
****
Jul 22, 2013 at 8:23pm QuotePost OptionsPost by 70smusicfan on Jul 22, 2013 at 8:23pm
Dear Mr. Partridge - Thank you very much for the articles - helps to put some perspective on the "Dust-Up in the Desert."
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 23, 2013 at 10:09am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 23, 2013 at 10:09am
Reading the articles leave me with more questions, I think, than answers. For instance, didn't the president and/or CEO backpedal or deny that Linda had been escorted from the casino and allso deny that she had been banned for life from the casino? And regarding the person in the casino who got into a snit with Linda over her dedicating "Desperado" to Michael Moore, I didn't see one word as to whether that person had been removed from the premises or arrested. Even if you're angry, you don't go through the lobby and start tearing up posters. That's an act of vandalism violence, even though it's a low form of violence but still, it could've been considered a threat against Linda. And regarding the others who got up and left, of those who agreed with the customer, did they part in the acts of vandalism or did they just get up and leave? I couldn't see that many people of a conservative, Republican nature being there and not knowing of Linda's more liberal politics. It just seems like some might have been there with the intention of staging a confrontation with her and walking out, hoping for the kind of media attention it got. And of the others who got up and walked out, one has to wonder how many walked out out of embarrassment at what was happening? And perhaps with fear that the police might show up and the situation escalate into something bigger. Or did those who walk out do so because the show was almost done (as has been suggested) or were there fans who had come there expecting to hear Linda sing her hits, only to be met with Linda declaring that she was going to sing songs from the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s? Depending on how much money they paid for the tickets, I can see where some people, expecting to hear Linda sing her hits might've been upset with Linda's dismissal that she wasn't there to sing her hits. With the billboard or poster promotion that Linda was going to appear at the casino and sing her hits, one gets the impression that was what the casino had expected when they signed Linda. Perhaps they and some of the fans were unaware that Linda had become very contemptuous of her own hits and music during that time and had reinvented herself musically?
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 23, 2013 at 10:09am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 23, 2013 at 10:09am
Reading the articles leave me with more questions, I think, than answers. For instance, didn't the president and/or CEO backpedal or deny that Linda had been escorted from the casino and allso deny that she had been banned for life from the casino? And regarding the person in the casino who got into a snit with Linda over her dedicating "Desperado" to Michael Moore, I didn't see one word as to whether that person had been removed from the premises or arrested. Even if you're angry, you don't go through the lobby and start tearing up posters. That's an act of vandalism violence, even though it's a low form of violence but still, it could've been considered a threat against Linda. And regarding the others who got up and left, of those who agreed with the customer, did they part in the acts of vandalism or did they just get up and leave? I couldn't see that many people of a conservative, Republican nature being there and not knowing of Linda's more liberal politics. It just seems like some might have been there with the intention of staging a confrontation with her and walking out, hoping for the kind of media attention it got. And of the others who got up and walked out, one has to wonder how many walked out out of embarrassment at what was happening? And perhaps with fear that the police might show up and the situation escalate into something bigger. Or did those who walk out do so because the show was almost done (as has been suggested) or were there fans who had come there expecting to hear Linda sing her hits, only to be met with Linda declaring that she was going to sing songs from the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s? Depending on how much money they paid for the tickets, I can see where some people, expecting to hear Linda sing her hits might've been upset with Linda's dismissal that she wasn't there to sing her hits. With the billboard or poster promotion that Linda was going to appear at the casino and sing her hits, one gets the impression that was what the casino had expected when they signed Linda. Perhaps they and some of the fans were unaware that Linda had become very contemptuous of her own hits and music during that time and had reinvented herself musically?
the Scribe
Desperado
********************
Jul 23, 2013 at 10:35am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 23, 2013 at 10:35am
Linda set the record straight in an interview (in the Tucson paper I believe) but no one can seem to find it. It was a good one and bares little resemblance to the news story.
"Keep it real."
Desperado
********************
Jul 23, 2013 at 10:35am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 23, 2013 at 10:35am
Linda set the record straight in an interview (in the Tucson paper I believe) but no one can seem to find it. It was a good one and bares little resemblance to the news story.
"Keep it real."
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Grand Poobah
Jul 23, 2013 at 11:25am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 23, 2013 at 11:25am
the Scribe Avatar
I remember reading that Linda did say that the matter could've been handled better and denying that she was escorted out. But, seemed like I also came across another news story online some time ago where the hotel-casino also denied the story that she was escorted out and also denied the story that she was barred for life. It was some negative publicity that Linda and the hotel-casino didn't really need but I'm still curious to know about what, if anything, happened to the third party involved in this story? Someone blowing up like that had some real anger issues, and one would think he would've been arrested at least for the vandalism, but maybe the hotel never pressed charges?
Pirate of Penzance
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Grand Poobah
Jul 23, 2013 at 11:25am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 23, 2013 at 11:25am
the Scribe Avatar
Jul 23, 2013 at 10:35am the Scribe said:
Linda set the record straight in an interview (in the Tucson paper I believe) but no one can seem to find it. It was a good one and bares little resemblance to the news story.
Linda set the record straight in an interview (in the Tucson paper I believe) but no one can seem to find it. It was a good one and bares little resemblance to the news story.
erik
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Jul 23, 2013 at 12:52pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 23, 2013 at 12:52pm
Quote by sliderocker:
Even though Linda had largely been out of the spotlight since, perhaps, the Millennium Concert in L.A. as 1999 became 2000, the matter of Linda's politics was still not a state secret. If they really wanted to, they could have unloaded on her at Wolftrap in Virginia two and a half weeks earlier, when she began making the dedication and got a lot of catcalls for her "trouble." They didn't, however. It all was unleashed in Las Vegas, which makes the whole thing seem so extremely bizarre, a black comedy of sorts if you want to look at it that way. The mass media either got the whole thing wrong, or told the rest of the world lies based on what came out of Fox News, right-wing AM talk radio, and the blogosphere about it.
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Jul 23, 2013 at 12:52pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 23, 2013 at 12:52pm
Quote by sliderocker:
I couldn't see that many people of a conservative, Republican nature being there and not knowing of Linda's more liberal politics. It just seems like some might have been there with the intention of staging a confrontation with her and walking out, hoping for the kind of media attention it got.
******************************************
pg.3
the Scribe
Desperado
********************
Jul 23, 2013 at 4:37pm QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 23, 2013 at 4:37pm
The righties felt very empowered after that Supreme Court stolen election, FOX news lying to them, the war mongering bloodlust that was feeding the right wing thirst for the red stuff, the daily use of 9/11 into some bizarre rallying call (even though they were responsible for it), daily terror alerts, enrichment of war profiteers and Republican cronies, etc. so when this so called has-been upstart Ronstadt challenged these freaks some went ballistic and FOX and the right wing NOISE MACHINE made an international incident out of nothing. That is their m.o. even today. Remember when one grade school principal in some podunk school disallowed a Christmas tree on school premises? The next thing you know on every right wing media outlet the word is that the evil Liberals are at war with Christmas. These people are terrified, hysterical overly dramatic bullies. It is really embarrassing. About half of registered Republicans are composed of these people. You gotta wonder what the other half are thinking about their bretheren?
Linda actually came out looking pretty good on this as she kept her calm and the crazies all overreacted in a long line of such behavior.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2013 at 5:02pm by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
Desperado
********************
Jul 23, 2013 at 4:37pm QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 23, 2013 at 4:37pm
The righties felt very empowered after that Supreme Court stolen election, FOX news lying to them, the war mongering bloodlust that was feeding the right wing thirst for the red stuff, the daily use of 9/11 into some bizarre rallying call (even though they were responsible for it), daily terror alerts, enrichment of war profiteers and Republican cronies, etc. so when this so called has-been upstart Ronstadt challenged these freaks some went ballistic and FOX and the right wing NOISE MACHINE made an international incident out of nothing. That is their m.o. even today. Remember when one grade school principal in some podunk school disallowed a Christmas tree on school premises? The next thing you know on every right wing media outlet the word is that the evil Liberals are at war with Christmas. These people are terrified, hysterical overly dramatic bullies. It is really embarrassing. About half of registered Republicans are composed of these people. You gotta wonder what the other half are thinking about their bretheren?
Linda actually came out looking pretty good on this as she kept her calm and the crazies all overreacted in a long line of such behavior.
Last Edit: Jul 23, 2013 at 5:02pm by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
Richard W
The Fast One
*********
Jul 23, 2013 at 5:14pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Richard W on Jul 23, 2013 at 5:14pm
Amen, bro.
The Fast One
*********
Jul 23, 2013 at 5:14pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Richard W on Jul 23, 2013 at 5:14pm
Jul 23, 2013 at 4:37pm the Scribe said:
The righties felt very empowered after that Supreme Court stolen election, FOX news lying to them, the war mongering bloodlust that was feeding the right wing thirst for the red stuff, the daily use of 9/11 into some bizarre rallying call (even though they were responsible for it), daily terror alerts, enrichment of war profiteers and Republican cronies, etc. so when this so called has-been upstart Ronstadt challenged these freaks some went ballistic and FOX and the right wing NOISE MACHINE made an international incident out of nothing. That is their m.o. even today. Remember when one grade school principal in some podunk school disallowed a Christmas tree on school premises? The next thing you know on every right wing media outlet the word is that the evil Liberals are at war with Christmas. These people are terrified, hysterical overly dramatic bullies. It is really embarrassing. About half of registered Republicans are composed of these people. You gotta wonder what the other half are thinking about their bretheren?
Linda actually came out looking pretty good on this as she kept her calm and the crazies all overreacted in a long line of such behavior.
The righties felt very empowered after that Supreme Court stolen election, FOX news lying to them, the war mongering bloodlust that was feeding the right wing thirst for the red stuff, the daily use of 9/11 into some bizarre rallying call (even though they were responsible for it), daily terror alerts, enrichment of war profiteers and Republican cronies, etc. so when this so called has-been upstart Ronstadt challenged these freaks some went ballistic and FOX and the right wing NOISE MACHINE made an international incident out of nothing. That is their m.o. even today. Remember when one grade school principal in some podunk school disallowed a Christmas tree on school premises? The next thing you know on every right wing media outlet the word is that the evil Liberals are at war with Christmas. These people are terrified, hysterical overly dramatic bullies. It is really embarrassing. About half of registered Republicans are composed of these people. You gotta wonder what the other half are thinking about their bretheren?
Linda actually came out looking pretty good on this as she kept her calm and the crazies all overreacted in a long line of such behavior.
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49am
That something like that happened in Las Vegas is extremely bizarre but the whole thing smelled of a right wing conspiracy to put liberal minded celebrities like Linda in their place. It seemed like the right was hellbent on silencing the critics of Bush and Cheney by whatever means possible including intimidation and resorting to Hitler's Big Lie technique: the more you tell/spread a lie, the more people believe the lie rather than the truth - Fox News and the kings and queens of right wing AM talk radio have the Big Lie technique down pat. Sadly, the more liberal news media has gotten to the point where they just don't care to dig deep enough to expose the lies. I sometimes wonder what it will take to wake them up?
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 24, 2013 at 1:49am
Jul 23, 2013 at 12:52pm erik said:
]Even though Linda had largely been out of the spotlight since, perhaps, the Millennium Concert in L.A. as 1999 became 2000, the matter of Linda's politics was still not a state secret. If they really wanted to, they could have unloaded on her at Wolftrap in Virginia two and a half weeks earlier, when she began making the dedication and got a lot of catcalls for her "trouble." They didn't, however. It all was unleashed in Las Vegas, which makes the whole thing seem so extremely bizarre, a black comedy of sorts if you want to look at it that way. The mass media either got the whole thing wrong, or told the rest of the world lies based on what came out of Fox News, right-wing AM talk radio, and the blogosphere about it.
]Even though Linda had largely been out of the spotlight since, perhaps, the Millennium Concert in L.A. as 1999 became 2000, the matter of Linda's politics was still not a state secret. If they really wanted to, they could have unloaded on her at Wolftrap in Virginia two and a half weeks earlier, when she began making the dedication and got a lot of catcalls for her "trouble." They didn't, however. It all was unleashed in Las Vegas, which makes the whole thing seem so extremely bizarre, a black comedy of sorts if you want to look at it that way. The mass media either got the whole thing wrong, or told the rest of the world lies based on what came out of Fox News, right-wing AM talk radio, and the blogosphere about it.
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Jul 24, 2013 at 5:11am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 24, 2013 at 5:11am
the audience was already somewhat unhappy as the concert was not advertised correctly. so I guess that is the conspiracy. we'll advertise the concert wrong. then have Linda dedicate a song to Michael Moore. then we'll trash her in the media (though there were a number of people who thought it no big deal in the media and/or agreed with Linda and I have read such items). this probably boils down to a few drunk people who got their feathers ruffled for whatever reason including linda singing standards. they may have come to her show to let loose etc. anyway, everybody have a great day!!!!!eddiejinnj
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Jul 24, 2013 at 5:11am QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 24, 2013 at 5:11am
the audience was already somewhat unhappy as the concert was not advertised correctly. so I guess that is the conspiracy. we'll advertise the concert wrong. then have Linda dedicate a song to Michael Moore. then we'll trash her in the media (though there were a number of people who thought it no big deal in the media and/or agreed with Linda and I have read such items). this probably boils down to a few drunk people who got their feathers ruffled for whatever reason including linda singing standards. they may have come to her show to let loose etc. anyway, everybody have a great day!!!!!eddiejinnj
sliderocker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jul 24, 2013 at 11:57am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 24, 2013 at 11:57am
I figure some of the patrons may have been unhappy with the concert being advertised as "Linda sings her hits," and then she comes out and says, "Oh no, I don't know anything about that. I'm going to sing songs from the 20s, 30s and 40s!" I can see where people might have been disappointed But, as for Linda dedicating a song to Michael Moore, if it had just been one person getting his nose out of joint about the dedication, it would've been one thing. But, some of the others who got up and left were also said to have been miffed about the dedication, and something just didn't add up about that. Maybe the conservatives in her audience didn't get together and decide to publicly embarrass her, but there was a lot of intolerance during that time directed towards those who didn't worship the ground Bush and Cheney walked on or hold extremely conservative views. There still is a lot of intolerance by people who only want to hear what they think being expressed by others and that everyone else just needs to shut the hell up.
True, they may have been "drunk" when they had their feathers ruffled in Vegas but this is something we don't know for certain. People sometimes do things when they're drunk that they wouldn't do while sober.
And imho, they were sober enough to understand Linda's dedication and what she was saying during that dedication. But, even if one didn't agree with her politics, one should've had the good manners to let it go. What that guy did was rude. It was Linda's show and her right to whatever she wanted and say whatever she wanted. And what that person did - whoever he was - and the others who agreed with him, whether they were drunk or sober, was ruin the show for others who may or may not have cared about Linda's politics, and who may have been unhappy with the fact her setlist didn't include her hits but who still wanted to see and hear her. I would've been unhappy with Linda not doing any of her hits but I would've been happy hear Linda sing anything, even songs I didn't like. Her singing songs from the 20s, 30s and 40s wouldn't have bothered me as I like a lot of the music from those eras.
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jul 24, 2013 at 11:57am QuotePost OptionsPost by sliderocker on Jul 24, 2013 at 11:57am
Jul 24, 2013 at 5:11am eddiejinnj said:
the audience was already somewhat unhappy as the concert was not advertised correctly. so I guess that is the conspiracy. we'll advertise the concert wrong. then have Linda dedicate a song to Michael Moore. then we'll trash her in the media (though there were a number of people who thought it no big deal in the media and/or agreed with Linda and I have read such items). this probably boils down to a few drunk people who got their feathers ruffled for whatever reason including linda singing standards. they may have come to her show to let loose etc. anyway, everybody have a great day!!!!!eddiejinnj
the audience was already somewhat unhappy as the concert was not advertised correctly. so I guess that is the conspiracy. we'll advertise the concert wrong. then have Linda dedicate a song to Michael Moore. then we'll trash her in the media (though there were a number of people who thought it no big deal in the media and/or agreed with Linda and I have read such items). this probably boils down to a few drunk people who got their feathers ruffled for whatever reason including linda singing standards. they may have come to her show to let loose etc. anyway, everybody have a great day!!!!!eddiejinnj
True, they may have been "drunk" when they had their feathers ruffled in Vegas but this is something we don't know for certain. People sometimes do things when they're drunk that they wouldn't do while sober.
And imho, they were sober enough to understand Linda's dedication and what she was saying during that dedication. But, even if one didn't agree with her politics, one should've had the good manners to let it go. What that guy did was rude. It was Linda's show and her right to whatever she wanted and say whatever she wanted. And what that person did - whoever he was - and the others who agreed with him, whether they were drunk or sober, was ruin the show for others who may or may not have cared about Linda's politics, and who may have been unhappy with the fact her setlist didn't include her hits but who still wanted to see and hear her. I would've been unhappy with Linda not doing any of her hits but I would've been happy hear Linda sing anything, even songs I didn't like. Her singing songs from the 20s, 30s and 40s wouldn't have bothered me as I like a lot of the music from those eras.
Dianna
Blowing Away
**************
Jul 24, 2013 at 2:08pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Dianna on Jul 24, 2013 at 2:08pm
When I saw her in costa mesa.. 2005 or 06 can't remember but it was after the vegas incident, she dedicated get out of town to george bush.. the people around me just laughed and it was no big deal.. orange county ca is pretty conservative.
Blowing Away
**************
Jul 24, 2013 at 2:08pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Dianna on Jul 24, 2013 at 2:08pm
When I saw her in costa mesa.. 2005 or 06 can't remember but it was after the vegas incident, she dedicated get out of town to george bush.. the people around me just laughed and it was no big deal.. orange county ca is pretty conservative.
the Scribe
Desperado
********************
Living off the chickens in my neighbor’s yard
Jul 24, 2013 at 2:36pm QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 24, 2013 at 2:36pm
She took a poll of support while in Phoenix. I was waiting for her to do that and was ready to vocalize at just the right time which I did and she nodded in approval.
"Keep it real."
Desperado
********************
Living off the chickens in my neighbor’s yard
Jul 24, 2013 at 2:36pm QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Jul 24, 2013 at 2:36pm
Jul 24, 2013 at 2:08pm Dianna said:
When I saw her in costa mesa.. 2005 or 06 can't remember but it was after the vegas incident, she dedicated get out of town to george bush.. the people around me just laughed and it was no big deal.. orange county ca is pretty conservative.
When I saw her in costa mesa.. 2005 or 06 can't remember but it was after the vegas incident, she dedicated get out of town to george bush.. the people around me just laughed and it was no big deal.. orange county ca is pretty conservative.
"Keep it real."
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Jul 24, 2013 at 3:59pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 24, 2013 at 3:59pm
I went to a show or 2 with those dedications after the event and there was no walking out or anything. eddiejinnj
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Jul 24, 2013 at 3:59pm QuotePost OptionsPost by eddiejinnj on Jul 24, 2013 at 3:59pm
I went to a show or 2 with those dedications after the event and there was no walking out or anything. eddiejinnj
erik
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Jul 24, 2013 at 4:16pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 24, 2013 at 4:16pm
Quote by Dianna:
I recall reading about that; it was not long after her appearance at the Universal Amphitheatre here in Los Angeles in July 2006. By that time, Bush's popularity, and that of his party, had plummeted thanks to Bush's "Brownie, you're doin' a heckuva job" debacle with Katrina. The people down there in Reagan/Nixon/John Wayne country had been chastened, even if it was only for the moment.
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Jul 24, 2013 at 4:16pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jul 24, 2013 at 4:16pm
Quote by Dianna:
When I saw her in costa mesa.. 2005 or 06 can't remember but it was after the vegas incident, she dedicated get out of town to george bush.. the people around me just laughed and it was no big deal.. orange county ca is pretty conservative.
Partridge
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Aug 13, 2013 at 7:51pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Aug 13, 2013 at 7:51pm
I was hoping that my next article posted would be something apolitical, but I ran across this one that I've been looking for. It contains the original quote from Linda that has been twisted to say that she does not want Christians and Republicans in her audience. And maybe she did say that to a reporter. At the time, Linda had a bad habit of coming up with a few phrases that she would spout off in every interview, and maybe she said this to a later reporter and got her tongue twisted.
At any rate, here is yet another article from 2004, from the LA Times, that ran a couple of days after the Las Vegas incident:
link: LA Times article www.ronstadt-linda.com/LAT20040721.html
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Aug 13, 2013 at 7:51pm QuotePost OptionsPost by Partridge on Aug 13, 2013 at 7:51pm
I was hoping that my next article posted would be something apolitical, but I ran across this one that I've been looking for. It contains the original quote from Linda that has been twisted to say that she does not want Christians and Republicans in her audience. And maybe she did say that to a reporter. At the time, Linda had a bad habit of coming up with a few phrases that she would spout off in every interview, and maybe she said this to a later reporter and got her tongue twisted.
At any rate, here is yet another article from 2004, from the LA Times, that ran a couple of days after the Las Vegas incident:
link: LA Times article www.ronstadt-linda.com/LAT20040721.html
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Aug 13, 2013 at 8:12pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Aug 13, 2013 at 8:12pm
The evangelical Christians (the ones who watch Pat Robertson every day of the week) and the Republicans (who get their "news" from Fox) were inevitably going to find something to b**ch about in Linda's comments, because it's the only way they can prove they're still breathing.
But I do think that Linda sometimes utters some things that, for lack of a better word, are "hocked up" and that come back to bite her at some point, maybe not instantly but down the road somewhere nevertheless. This whole Vegas imbroglio was a very fine line for her to walk, and I think she knew that, which is why she didn't choose to exploit it for too long.
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Aug 13, 2013 at 8:12pm QuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Aug 13, 2013 at 8:12pm
The evangelical Christians (the ones who watch Pat Robertson every day of the week) and the Republicans (who get their "news" from Fox) were inevitably going to find something to b**ch about in Linda's comments, because it's the only way they can prove they're still breathing.
But I do think that Linda sometimes utters some things that, for lack of a better word, are "hocked up" and that come back to bite her at some point, maybe not instantly but down the road somewhere nevertheless. This whole Vegas imbroglio was a very fine line for her to walk, and I think she knew that, which is why she didn't choose to exploit it for too long.
the Scribe
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Aug 14, 2013 at 11:05am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Aug 14, 2013 at 11:05am
"We have to stick together," she said. "I just think we can't take this lying down. It's like the Weimar republic.... These [neo-conservative] people are taking over the government. People are sound asleep, and I don't think this is the time to back down."
Linda Ronstadt
I finally found this one that set the record straight from Linda herself. I had been looking for it forever:
JULY 21, 2004
Reports of casino incident not accurate, Ronstadt says
DANIEL BUCKLEY
Tucson Citizen
Singer Linda Ronstadt was not asked to leave a Las Vegas casino Saturday after she endorsed Michael Moore's controversial film "Fahrenheit 9/11," the Tucson native told the Tucson Citizen yesterday.
And she was not booed off the stage by a concert crowd that had erupted in mayhem, she said.
Speaking by phone from San Francisco, Ronstadt said that she left the Aladdin Resort & Casino immediately after the concert and was not aware that the management was irritated by her comments until an hour after she left the show.
Aladdin management declined to comment on the incident yesterday, referring the Citizen to a statement issued Monday.
The statement reads, in part:
"Ms. Ronstadt was hired to entertain the guests of the Aladdin, not to espouse her political views. In an effort to diffuse the situation, Linda Ronstadt was asked to leave the property immediately following her performance."
Ronstadt says she has made the same pitch about Moore's film at each previous show in her summer tour, just before the encore, "Desperado." The audience reaction has been a mixture of boos and cheers, she said.
"I've been doing it all across the country, and I've never seen an audience response like this in my life. This country is so completely polarized," she said.
"As soon as I start singing, ‘Desperado,' they love (the song) and they start cheering, which they've done all through my career. That's how that works, and then I finish the song and I leave."
The Los Angeles Times and Associated Press reported that Ronstadt was escorted off the property, not allowed to return to her room and booed off the stage and that people were throwing drinks by the close of her show.
None of those things happened, she said.
By her account, she had originally planned to fly out after the show to the next city on the tour but a sinus problem prompted her doctor to cancel that plan. One of her aides then booked her a room at the Aladdin, which she never saw.
After the concert, she went backstage and was about to head to the car provided for her by the Aladdin when she was confronted by an Aladdin employee.
"This woman comes huffing up to me and says, ‘I'm afraid I can't let you leave.' I said, ‘What?' And she said, ‘You can't leave yet because the owner is on his way over here to talk to you.' " the singer said.
She declined and left for the Ritz-Carlton in her tour bus when the employee said the Aladdin car would not be allowed to leave, Ronstadt said.
"I thought she was going to read me my Miranda rights or make me start writing things on the blackboard," she said.
"I didn't know they were mad at me until we were gone, and I didn't know what they were mad at me about until about an hour later, when apparently they called up one of the people that was traveling with us and went, ‘She's talking about Michael Moore, and this is a place for entertainment, not politics,' " Ronstadt said.
She has received support from a number of other celebrities, and the Aladdin's new owner, the owners of Hard Rock Cafe, called to ask her back, she said.
"Michael Moore called me and said he would go with me. We could sing, ‘America the Beautiful' together and he would screen his movie for free for anyone who wants to come and see it," she said.
"Irving Azoff, who is the Eagles' manager, immediately pulled all his acts from the Aladdin. I've had phone calls and messages from all over. Elton John sent me flowers last night. Keith Richards, Sting - the list goes on and on of people pouring in support."
She insists she was only trying to get people to think.
"I think (celebrities) should try to get people to think. I think they need to bring information to the public, she said. "The American media has been completely hijacked by corporate interests. The news is so biased, and we've got to get it through any way that we can.
"Now I don't think somebody should take my word. Because I'm a singer doesn't necessarily make me an expert in world politics, though I'm well read. But I think my obligation at this point is to try to steer people into just thinking."
She notes that while some concert promoters have asked that she not endorse Moore's movie at their venues, there is no language in her contract prohibiting her from doing so.
"I'll damn well say what I please, as I always have," she says. "And if they cancel my show, they'll just be doing me a favor. They'll still have to pay me, and I could use a day off. I have no idea how ticket sales are going, and I never worry about record sales."
Apparently not everyone is upset with the soft-rock star.
Ronstadt sang to a full-house Tuesday night at Universal Amphitheatre in Los Angeles, and the crowd reserved its longest and loudest ovation for her endorsement of Moore's film, the Los Angeles Times reported yesterday.
The Los Angeles Times contributed to this report.
and this one:
July 21st, 2004 2:04 pm
Desperadoes
New York Times
Something went awry at the Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas last Saturday night. Linda Ronstadt did what she has done at several concerts across the country this summer. She dedicated the song "Desperado"- an encore - to Michael Moore and urged members of the audience to go see his new movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11."
Elsewhere, audiences have reacted to the mention of Mr. Moore by cheering, booing, walking out and sometimes glaring at one another in parking lots. At the Aladdin, a few audience members tore down posters, threw drinks and demanded their money back. According to one person who was present - William Timmins, the Aladdin's president - it was "a very ugly scene." Mr. Timmins promptly made it even uglier. He had Ms. Ronstadt ejected from the premises.
This behavior assumes that Ms. Ronstadt had no right to express a political opinion from the stage. It implies - for some members of the audience at least - that there is a philosophical contract that says an artist must entertain an audience only in the ways that audience sees fit. It argues, in fact, that an artist like Ms. Ronstadt does not have the same rights as everyone else.
Perhaps her praise for Mr. Moore, even at the very end of her show, did ruin the performance for some people. They have a right to voice their disapproval - to express their opinion as Ms. Ronstadt expressed hers and to ask for a refund. But if their intemperate behavior began to worry the management, then they were the ones who should have been thrown out and told never to return, not Ms. Ronstadt, who threatened, after all, only to sing.
Last Edit: Aug 14, 2013 at 12:15pm by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
Desperado
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Living off the chickens in my neighbor’s yard
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Posts: 18,453
Aug 14, 2013 at 11:05am QuotePost OptionsPost by the Scribe on Aug 14, 2013 at 11:05am
"We have to stick together," she said. "I just think we can't take this lying down. It's like the Weimar republic.... These [neo-conservative] people are taking over the government. People are sound asleep, and I don't think this is the time to back down."
Linda Ronstadt
I finally found this one that set the record straight from Linda herself. I had been looking for it forever:
JULY 21, 2004
Reports of casino incident not accurate, Ronstadt says
DANIEL BUCKLEY
Tucson Citizen
Singer Linda Ronstadt was not asked to leave a Las Vegas casino Saturday after she endorsed Michael Moore's controversial film "Fahrenheit 9/11," the Tucson native told the Tucson Citizen yesterday.
And she was not booed off the stage by a concert crowd that had erupted in mayhem, she said.
Speaking by phone from San Francisco, Ronstadt said that she left the Aladdin Resort & Casino immediately after the concert and was not aware that the management was irritated by her comments until an hour after she left the show.
Aladdin management declined to comment on the incident yesterday, referring the Citizen to a statement issued Monday.
The statement reads, in part:
"Ms. Ronstadt was hired to entertain the guests of the Aladdin, not to espouse her political views. In an effort to diffuse the situation, Linda Ronstadt was asked to leave the property immediately following her performance."
Ronstadt says she has made the same pitch about Moore's film at each previous show in her summer tour, just before the encore, "Desperado." The audience reaction has been a mixture of boos and cheers, she said.
"I've been doing it all across the country, and I've never seen an audience response like this in my life. This country is so completely polarized," she said.
"As soon as I start singing, ‘Desperado,' they love (the song) and they start cheering, which they've done all through my career. That's how that works, and then I finish the song and I leave."
The Los Angeles Times and Associated Press reported that Ronstadt was escorted off the property, not allowed to return to her room and booed off the stage and that people were throwing drinks by the close of her show.
None of those things happened, she said.
By her account, she had originally planned to fly out after the show to the next city on the tour but a sinus problem prompted her doctor to cancel that plan. One of her aides then booked her a room at the Aladdin, which she never saw.
After the concert, she went backstage and was about to head to the car provided for her by the Aladdin when she was confronted by an Aladdin employee.
"This woman comes huffing up to me and says, ‘I'm afraid I can't let you leave.' I said, ‘What?' And she said, ‘You can't leave yet because the owner is on his way over here to talk to you.' " the singer said.
She declined and left for the Ritz-Carlton in her tour bus when the employee said the Aladdin car would not be allowed to leave, Ronstadt said.
"I thought she was going to read me my Miranda rights or make me start writing things on the blackboard," she said.
"I didn't know they were mad at me until we were gone, and I didn't know what they were mad at me about until about an hour later, when apparently they called up one of the people that was traveling with us and went, ‘She's talking about Michael Moore, and this is a place for entertainment, not politics,' " Ronstadt said.
She has received support from a number of other celebrities, and the Aladdin's new owner, the owners of Hard Rock Cafe, called to ask her back, she said.
"Michael Moore called me and said he would go with me. We could sing, ‘America the Beautiful' together and he would screen his movie for free for anyone who wants to come and see it," she said.
"Irving Azoff, who is the Eagles' manager, immediately pulled all his acts from the Aladdin. I've had phone calls and messages from all over. Elton John sent me flowers last night. Keith Richards, Sting - the list goes on and on of people pouring in support."
She insists she was only trying to get people to think.
"I think (celebrities) should try to get people to think. I think they need to bring information to the public, she said. "The American media has been completely hijacked by corporate interests. The news is so biased, and we've got to get it through any way that we can.
"Now I don't think somebody should take my word. Because I'm a singer doesn't necessarily make me an expert in world politics, though I'm well read. But I think my obligation at this point is to try to steer people into just thinking."
She notes that while some concert promoters have asked that she not endorse Moore's movie at their venues, there is no language in her contract prohibiting her from doing so.
"I'll damn well say what I please, as I always have," she says. "And if they cancel my show, they'll just be doing me a favor. They'll still have to pay me, and I could use a day off. I have no idea how ticket sales are going, and I never worry about record sales."
Apparently not everyone is upset with the soft-rock star.
Ronstadt sang to a full-house Tuesday night at Universal Amphitheatre in Los Angeles, and the crowd reserved its longest and loudest ovation for her endorsement of Moore's film, the Los Angeles Times reported yesterday.
The Los Angeles Times contributed to this report.
and this one:
July 21st, 2004 2:04 pm
Desperadoes
New York Times
Something went awry at the Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas last Saturday night. Linda Ronstadt did what she has done at several concerts across the country this summer. She dedicated the song "Desperado"- an encore - to Michael Moore and urged members of the audience to go see his new movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11."
Elsewhere, audiences have reacted to the mention of Mr. Moore by cheering, booing, walking out and sometimes glaring at one another in parking lots. At the Aladdin, a few audience members tore down posters, threw drinks and demanded their money back. According to one person who was present - William Timmins, the Aladdin's president - it was "a very ugly scene." Mr. Timmins promptly made it even uglier. He had Ms. Ronstadt ejected from the premises.
This behavior assumes that Ms. Ronstadt had no right to express a political opinion from the stage. It implies - for some members of the audience at least - that there is a philosophical contract that says an artist must entertain an audience only in the ways that audience sees fit. It argues, in fact, that an artist like Ms. Ronstadt does not have the same rights as everyone else.
Perhaps her praise for Mr. Moore, even at the very end of her show, did ruin the performance for some people. They have a right to voice their disapproval - to express their opinion as Ms. Ronstadt expressed hers and to ask for a refund. But if their intemperate behavior began to worry the management, then they were the ones who should have been thrown out and told never to return, not Ms. Ronstadt, who threatened, after all, only to sing.
Last Edit: Aug 14, 2013 at 12:15pm by the Scribe
"Keep it real."
heartbreaker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jan 24, 2022 at 6:40am QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on Jan 24, 2022 at 6:40am
Linda being commendably pro-Democrat, could have been a target for Republican supporting etc critics.
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jan 24, 2022 at 6:40am QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on Jan 24, 2022 at 6:40am
Linda being commendably pro-Democrat, could have been a target for Republican supporting etc critics.
erik
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Jan 24, 2022 at 7:44am heartbreaker likes thisQuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jan 24, 2022 at 7:44am
Quote by heartbreaker:
....which she actually was, following her advocacy of Michael Moore's film FAHRENHEIT 9/11 on the stage of the Aladdin in Las Vegas in 2004.
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Jan 24, 2022 at 7:44am heartbreaker likes thisQuotePost OptionsPost by erik on Jan 24, 2022 at 7:44am
Quote by heartbreaker:
Linda being commendably pro-Democrat, could have been a target for Republican supporting etc critics.
heartbreaker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jan 24, 2022 at 8:12am QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on Jan 24, 2022 at 8:12am
How was & is Michael Moore regarded in the US, was/is he a polarising figure? I have seen his films which strike me as well made, but not being American myself...
Pirate of Penzance
*************
Jan 24, 2022 at 8:12am QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on Jan 24, 2022 at 8:12am
How was & is Michael Moore regarded in the US, was/is he a polarising figure? I have seen his films which strike me as well made, but not being American myself...
heartbreaker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
8 hours ago QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on 8 hours ago
Reading this thread in 2022! "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Pirate of Penzance
*************
8 hours ago QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on 8 hours ago
Reading this thread in 2022! "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
guest
6 hours ago heartbreaker likes thisQuotePost OptionsPost by guest on 6 hours ago
heartbreaker Avatar
Is this thread not available? I would very much like to read it if for nothing else historical reasons:
Jul 19, 2013 11:16:31 GMT -5 the Scribe said:
GOOD READING FROM THE OLD FORUM (A VERY POPULAR THREAD): NO, YOU SHUT UP TOUR
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
The more things change the more things stay the same...or get even worse when you read today's news in 2022.
6 hours ago heartbreaker likes thisQuotePost OptionsPost by guest on 6 hours ago
heartbreaker Avatar
11 hours ago heartbreaker said:
Reading this thread in 2022! "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Reading this thread in 2022! "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Jul 19, 2013 11:16:31 GMT -5 the Scribe said:
GOOD READING FROM THE OLD FORUM (A VERY POPULAR THREAD): NO, YOU SHUT UP TOUR
ronstadt-linda.com/v-web/bulletin/velco2/viewtopic.php?t=486&=shut+tour
The more things change the more things stay the same...or get even worse when you read today's news in 2022.
heartbreaker
Pirate of Penzance
*************
6 hours ago QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on 6 hours ago
The old forum has long gone, might be on Wayback Machine possibly.
Pirate of Penzance
*************
6 hours ago QuotePost OptionsPost by heartbreaker on 6 hours ago
The old forum has long gone, might be on Wayback Machine possibly.