Why I don't believe that AFib causes strokes
York Cardiology
153,035 views Streamed live on Dec 9, 2016 Understanding atrial fibrillation
In this video Dr Sanjay Gupta discusses why Afib is probably not the cause of strokes but rather a marker of increased risk of strokes. My website is
www.yorkcardiology.co.uk and my email address is yorkcardiology@gmail.com
you need anticoagulants based on the company AFIB keeps i.e. heart disease, high bp, etc.comments
This logical analysis by the good gentleman leads us to the understanding that afib is indeed a marker that when accompanied by various comorbidities can and often will lead to a stroke. But critically, in the absence of being accompanied by comorbidities, the afib in of itself is not a cause per se of strokes. The results of the studies speak for themselves. Excellent analysis that the rank and file medical practitioners choose to amazingly ignore, They advertise and throw the 500% greater risk of stroke stat at you, yet they fail to explain the big stroke numbers are occurring with afib + comorbidities. Bravo Dr. Gupta!
Timely discussion. I recently had an ablation for AFIB, and the electrophysiologist advised that I should continue eliquis for a few weeks more. I related to him that I had only minor, occasional bruising, and that my incidence of retinal migraine had dropped markedly after starting eliquis. I also mentioned that his cardiology group had started me on this drug based on my CHADS score. Given any voice in the matter, I'll chose to continue this rather expensive regimen. Thank you for giving me more ammunition for this fight.
What a relief ! I have been told by two doctors recently that I will have stroke unless I do what they say and take anti coagulants. I did take them for a few weeks and they nearly killed me. Quite horrible. I have discovered that many, many diseases, medications etc. cause AFIB My family has a complicated inherited medical history with Pernicious Anemia, too long to explain here, but they seem to live long with AFIB. My Mother lived to 90 even though she had not been treated for it since she was a child (had to eat raw liver every day) and the injections were only started in her late 50's. She had the excessive bleeding that comes with some P A's I believe the AFIB is caused by the heart trying to get oxygen around to the major organs, not because of heart disease, but because there is a problem in the blood with the corpuscles. I was encouraged by your post. I have so much more information to give but here is not the place. I am English but I live in Texas, where there are diseases that can only be cured by Big Pharma.
Fascinating. I had always wondered why whether I was in AF or not wasn't included in the CHA2DS2VASC score. Yes, it's a scoring system for those with AF, but it doesn't differentiate between AF and NSR, or paroxysmal/permanent etc. which you would think it would if the stroke risk was due, temporally, to AF. The scoring kind of implies that it's for when you are in AF permanently. From my own experience post-ablation, all 3 of my Cardios over the years (one an eminent UK professor, one my EP who did the ablation and is equally eminent and the last my local Cardio who is also well respected in the field) were very clear that I should not *automatically* come off anti-coagulant post ablation and this needed discussion. But they did agree to me coming off since my risks were at the time low - score of 1 due to high BP. I think the provocative title of this video is great since it highlights a misunderstanding - it got my attention!
My father was on blood thinner. He went off of it. Took aspirin two years. He got tired of taking it. Informed his cardiologist he was not going to take anything. 6 months later got a stroke. It took him three years of therapy to talk and to think. He was very bright and witty , CEO of a big company. He never got back to the state of mind before a stroke. I’m not taking my chances. After a diagnosis I’m taking blood thinner.
2 replies
@goldenautumn3073
6 months ago
All doctors I've seen with my A-F diagnosed a year ago have told me aspirin doesn't stop blood clotting/strokes - not strong enough. They immediately changed the aspirin to Apixaban.
Reply
@bpj1720
2 months ago
strokes can happen to anyone
Thank you Dr. Gupta -- all your videos have and continue to help me understand about atrial fibrillation. Recently my cardiologist and electrophysical cardiologist have proposed an AV ablation and installation of a pacemaker for me and kind of rushed me into setting a date for it which I agreed to. BUT since learning so much from you I have a lot of questions that need answering so I postponed the procedure(s). I am not short of breath, I do not have pain, I do have fatigue but think the proposed procedures will not help that. My comorbidities are hypertension and age (78 yrs). I am taking xarelto, metroprolol succinate and ditilazem. In reading about some Afib procedures I read in two places that the AV ablation/pacemaker procedure is a "last ditch" effort. Any advice is more than welcome although you are so generous with your time doing these videos that I don't want to impose on you. Please bring your pup into the picture sometimes.
16
York Cardiology
Reply
3 replies
@lwaring1826
@lwaring1826
5 years ago
I’m convinced my afib started with my acid reflex. I don’t feel right when I’m in acid reflex after eating sometimes and I feel afib come on sometimes. It helps to take even a 15 walk. I was nervous about the walk at first because my pulse rate increased enough to make me doubtful that this was a good idea, but after awhile the pulse rate settled down. Walking helps both the reflex and afib. 15 min a day and hopefully it will help you too
York Cardiology
Reply
@brabdog
@brabdog
4 years ago (edited)
Did you end up having the procedure? I have Afib and consulted with an electro-cardiologist. His advice regarding a pacemaker was simple: as long as the heart is meeting the metabolic requirements of the body, don't do it. You mentioned you were not short of breath, etc., so perhaps your heart is meeting your metabolic requirements? Don't let the docs put a rush on you to get the procedure until you get an unbiased second opinion. "Unbiased" means you may have to travel... local docs tend to toe the line and don't like to contradict one another. I ended up going to another city and consulting with a University-affiliated cardiologist. PS - I should also mention that my echo-cardiogram was within normal limits.
5
Reply
@bpj1720
@bpj1720
4 months ago
@lwaring1826 im pretty sure afib and reflux is closely related.
I 1000000% agree,
Too often people confuse causation with correlation,
What I mean by that is just because something happens to be present during a study doesn't mean it is the cause of the effect, so thank you for pointing that out.
By making this I am sure you will be able to prevent people from making bad choices when it comes to their health and medications.
Thank you Doctor.
(29 F with afib)When I asked my electrophysiologist at the Cleveland clinic(highly rated for the cardiology department), if getting an ablation would stop my risk of strokes he flat out said "no". He had no hesitation in his answer. 100% confidence. He said they do it when the palpitations/afib interferes with someones life too much or start to cause physical changes in the heart.
Prior to the appointment I was going to ask to get an ablation; after his answer it felt like it was the equivalent of "cosmetic surgery" for your heart.
Reply
11 replies
@somuchinfo
5 years ago
I agree. I had one episode other then a skipped beat once in a while which has happened since I was in my 20s now 50's. My electrophysiologist said ablation right away. I want to fix the cause not the symptom. Some people that have had ablation either have to have more than one or have to have ablations every few years as thought the heart heals and goes right back to the previous afib. Anxiety is my biggest hurdle.
Reply
@wholenwon
4 years ago
Your cardiologist at the CC was exactly correct.
Reply
@jward2
4 years ago
Wait what? That's confusing. I don't understand.
Does your cardiologist mean that we all (AFib or not) have an equal chance of stroke?
Reply
@googledude5704
4 years ago
@jward2 That is precisely what this video says. Afib is not a risk factor in CHA2DS2 - VASc which the doctors use to decide whether or not to put you on anticoagulants. If you are over 65, presto, here is a prescription.
Seems like the same story as statins, the pharmaceutical companies have another tool to fatten their bank accounts.
Reply
@gloriamaryhaywood2217
3 years ago
@jward2 IF you also have co-morbidities such as over 65 years of age, plus other factors such as high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, ect., then AFib or no AFib your risk of stroke is very High!!!
Reply
@glenschofield188
2 years ago
@gloriamaryhaywood2217 I just got diagnosed with permanent AFib in middle of March. Ablation coming up soon. I'd rather take the risk of surgery to get all four chambers of my heart up and running again than to leave 2 doing nothing and the ventricles with reduced blood flow. Stroke risk or no.
Reply
@gloriamaryhaywood2217
2 years ago (edited)
@glenschofield188 Oh, I Agree! Especially if you are dx with frigging permanent Afib!! I absolutely hate experiencing AFib even occasionally!!#UGH. It's been about a year now since my last one. I was able to bring myself back into normal sinus rhythm within a few minutes, thank Goodness!! But I was just very surprised to learn that having ablation, while getting rid of the verrry annoying AFib,(YAY!) does NOT reduce chances of Stroke?🤔 Wishing you the best of luck and health!😉
(Edited this to add that if I were to start experiencing more frequent afib then I would diffenetely consider ablation!!)
Reply
@emet-Debar
11 months ago
@gloriamaryhaywood2217 Could you tell me what you did to bring yourself back into normal sinus rhythm? I would love to know.
Reply
@gloriamaryhaywood2217
11 months ago
@emet-Debar It really depends a lot on what is actually Causing your particular Afib issues. Everybody is a bit different from what I've been able to learn? And it's hard to know sometimes just WHAT is triggering the Afib. Mine seem to be Stress related! But others say certain foods tend to trigger theirs. So different techniques work for different people. And sometimes, no matter what you do, unfortunately Nothing works!!
But just use a Google search to see the different little tricks that seem to work for a lot of us! I use different ones, but mainly bearing down really hard and putting pressure on the vagus nerve works best for me! Good luck with your search!😊
Reply
@emet-Debar
11 months ago
@gloriamaryhaywood2217 Thank you for your thoughts!!
Reply
@gloriamaryhaywood2217
11 months ago
@emet-Debar Your welcome! And
I wanted to add that you need to be sure to stay hydrated! Dehydration is a BIG Afib trigger with some people! Especially the folks that exercise quite a bit. And especially in very hot weather like we're experiencing now!!😉😥Thank you, Dr. Gupta, for this enlightening discourse on stroke, atrial fibrillation, and the scoring system used to consider anticoagulation. It has brought to me a whole new understanding about these, and I am grateful to you for posting this.
Reply
York Cardiology
2 replies
@yorkcardiology
4 years ago
thank you so much!
@dougslovak7091
5 months ago (edited)
I've had two heart valve replacement surgeries- one Ross procedure (didn't last long), the other pig valve. They had me on blood thinners. One night I dropped a pencil, reached down to pick it up while sitting in my chair, hit my forehead on the edge of my desk, and started bleeding. Wouldn't stop, but I kept applying pressure with tissue paper, thought I had it stopped, and went to sleep. My alarm goes off at 6AM, my eyes are glued shut from blood, and there is a mass of blood on my bed. I was still bleeding. Had it not been for my alarm, I probably would have kept sleeping and bled to death. I gave up on the blood thinners at that point. I figured they were more risk than a stroke, which I will unfortunately probably have at some point. Not really sure what to do. Any suggestions are welcome. Oh, and I have Afib on a constant basis. It goes through cycles, but it's constant. Doesn't do much for ones state of mind, or energy level.
Reply
@globalprofits101
3 months ago
Jeez man. Sorry about everything man. I pray you find strength somehow through this mind screw called afib and also life itself!!
What I have been told is that Afib causes clotts, and therefore may create strokes, so the stroke may not happen at the same time as the Afib episode. In any case, I don't think I need the anticoagulant as I am older, but eat only a plant based diet, therefore my blood is good. I certainly don't want a stroke, but also don't like the bruising. Thank you for all you do.
Had to listen to this video because of the title. It has sown a bit of confusion, but I completely understand your point Dr. Gupta - it is other health problems + age + Afib that increases risk of strokes rather than Afib on its own. Like many others, I thank you for trying to help patients with AF. Although I have been told I am at risk of a stroke (having AF, being over 65 and female), I have decided against anticoagulation for the moment, preferring to find my own way of stopping my Afib through supplements (magnesium taurate), ppi therapy for gastric problems and treatment for sleep apnea before going down the ablation/anticoagulation route. Not sure why but my symptoms have eased considerably but only time will tell if this continues, since I believe Afib is usually progressive. One thing I do know is that it helps to want to take control rather than just leave it to cardiologists/electrophysiologists. Good luck everyone.
Thanks for the great videos. Recently I watched your comments about acid and anticoagulants. I have rather silent a fib. Low blood pressure. I had an ablation 20 years ago. It was extremely successful. However after 10 years I needed another one. It was not successful. My dr. Has put me on an anticoagulant. I find it has caused more problems and depleted my energy level. The main complication is that I have myotonic dystrophy. I am not certain if that has caused the a fib. I want to get off the anticoagulant, but not certain if I should do that I know my dr. Will not advise me to do that. Kind of confused y all this.
I started taking magnesium regularly together with l-cystine and yoga/exercise and attempts at weight loss, it seems to have helped and my arrhythmia hasn’t reared its head. I read a paper that says AFib disappeared in 90% of cases with a 10% reduction in weight.
My Doctor is trying to scare me into going on Warfrin for my AF. I'm right out refusing because I don't believe I will have a stroke from AF. I was on so many heart meds after a heart attack in 2014 that made me so ill that I could barely function. I came off all meds and swore I'd rather die than feel that disabled ever again. .. So next time I go my doctors for something and he hijacks that app to discuss Warfrin like he does everytime, I am showing him this video. . So thankyou for reinforcing what I feel instinctively about the risk of stroke from AF and need for Warfrin
Reply
York Cardiology
5 replies
@yorkcardiology
2 years ago
The risk of strokes goes up with age (>65) and additional comorbidities. The aim of the video was to make people aware that it is those things in addition to the AF that increase the risk of strokes
The stroke is caused by a blood clot breaking free and lodging in the brain. AF increases the chance of a clot forming because there can be stagnant regions in the atria and left atrial appendage. The clot can break free a long time after the AF has stopped. So it is arguable whether or not the AF caused the stroke. My reasoning says 'yes, the AF caused the stroke' because if AF had never occurred in the first place then there would not have been a clot. Other comorbidities in older people are also going to increase the risk of a clot. Cause and effect. I have seen other videos of yours and have agreed, but in this case I respectfully disagree.
Reply
8 replies
@katy8791
1 year ago (edited)
@york Cardiology I wish Dr. Gupta could clarify about what you said because it is confusing of whether AF really causes the strokes (in young or old people) or there should be comobidities to have a stroke??
Reply
@katy8791
1 year ago (edited)
@york Cardiology Also, can one finds the clot (if there is one) before it spreads in the arteries if he has AF?
Reply
@katy8791
1 year ago
@geocarey are you a cardiologist?
Reply
@tonybudiman
1 year ago
for want of a better word, maybe AF "facilitates" rather than "trigger" the stroke. If stroke was a bank robbery, AF provides the getaway vehicle ,and another accomplice (maybe a narrowed artery or high BP) is the robber that perform the deed..
Reply
@geocarey
1 year ago
@katy8791 No, I had AF which was cured with two ablations, so I have an interest in the subject. Sorry for delay, only just seen your comment.
Reply
@gloriamaryhaywood2217
1 year ago
@geocarey I'm with you on this! Afib is the catalyst for causing the blood clot in the first place! Nope, Im not willing to chance a stroke. I will keep taking my blood-thinner!😉
Reply
@jadenaomixx
11 months ago
That isn't the only cause of blood clots though. And the risk of it is still low in young people with no other issues. So if the risk of a clot is low.
People have strokes for many reasons. Smoking increases risk of stroke!
You can get a blood clot for many reasons too.
Reply
@gloriamaryhaywood2217
11 months ago (edited)
@jadenaomixx You're right. Blood clots form and strokes happen in folks that are basically Healthy and NEVER had AFib issues. BUT studies have shown that AFib absolutely increases the Risk of Stroke from Blood Clots over 5X the Norm!!
But it truly also depends on the *individual*. A Key factor seems to be How Long you actually Stay in AFib!? It seems that it takes several hours for the clots to form with Afib? (At least that's what I've been able to learn about it so far!) I'm glad that my AFib episodes are always under a couple of hours, ...so far Anyways! Sometimes ends in just minutes, by using a few learned techniques I learned to help my heart revert back into normal sinus rhythm!
Here's wishing the BEST of Health to everybody!😊
I have Afib and I had a stroke when I was 58. I also have a hiatal hernia which I think compresses my vagus nerve. I’m on blood thinners now oh I have PTSD too and I was put in beta blockers which calmed down my Afib.
Reply
1 reply
@gloriamaryhaywood2217
3 years ago (edited)
I have recently been dx with AFib. Put on beta-blocker which has made me feel a whole lot better. Also prescribed a blood thinner as well.
Yes, I agree that your hiatal hernia may very well be pressing on your vagus nerve and maybe triggering your Afibs.
