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Post by the Scribe on Sept 6, 2022 2:12:25 GMT
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Post by the Scribe on Sept 7, 2022 22:11:41 GMT
transcript
Speaker 1 Gaydos
Hey we've talked a lot about uh this border wall. It's a temporary border wall kind of a barrier along the Arizona Mexico border. So last week we heard about it. Governor Doug Ducey put money in and he's put the shipping containers on top of each other. And uh so you know we've goofed on it because after the first day
00:22
Speaker 1
11 fell, I mean you know the first day you know, I don't know if there was a big wind but it fell uh and then you can put it back up and you're like what are you guys doing? And it's supposed to only be temporary biden is supposed to take care of this problem. He's allotted some money. Uh
00:41
Speaker 1
And and so we have that. But it's very interesting these shipping containers right to build a wall. Is there a major problem with it? Our next guest sees a a major problem with it joining us now is Andy Gordon, former uh counselor to the Department of Homeland Security under President Obama Andy. How are you today?
01:01
Speaker 2 Andy Gordon
I'm good thanks. How are you all?
01:02
Speaker 1
Hey we're good. Before we get to why you have a problem with the wall uh you worked on the barrier, the the border wall under the Obama administration. Tell us exactly what you did. So we get a little background on you.
01:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. So when I was at the Department of Homeland Security in 9 4010, 1 of my primary responsibilities related to maintaining and completing the barrier at that time there were 474 180 miles of barrier up.
01:37
Speaker 2
And we had, we committed to completing construction of some additional barrier, which we did. Uh and I was responsible for overseeing parts of that. I was responsible for uh some of the environmental issues that it presents frequently traveled down to the border sectors. I've been to this human sector several times.
02:01
Speaker 1
Okay, So the shipping containers, um you don't love them, Tell us why
02:07
Speaker 2
it's a stupid idea.
02:10
Speaker 1
I mean it looks pretty good. I'm kind of looking at it and it fits, but tell us why it's stupid.
02:17
Speaker 2
Okay, well there are a couple of reasons. Um one is just
02:22
Speaker 2
uh tactical strategic matter. The reason what is along the border is a fence rather than a wall. There's a few places where it's solid, but it's primarily fencing in the sense that you can see through the other side
02:38
Speaker 2
where you could offense um is you want to see what the hell's going, Excuse me? What's going on on the other side? Okay. Uh you want to be able to our people gathering, Are they coming this way? Is there a way to interdict them? Uh That's why you have the barriers that look like fence. Now the shipping containers, obviously you can't do that.
03:06
Speaker 2
So you have no idea what the heck is happening on the other side. Apparently they had so little idea of what was happening and somebody came and pulled a couple of them over. So so for someone who has some level of knowledge and expertise and sophistication in the area. You know this is just a terrible way of doing it, assuming you need to be doing it at all
03:30
Speaker 1
talking to Andy Gordon former counsel of the department of homeland Security something needs to be done. Uh
03:35
Speaker 1
desperate times call for desperate measures. I mean they they've sent a few busloads to new york city and new york city acts like they're gonna go bankrupt in the hour yet Yuma is inundated you know Tucson sector el paso we can talk about it, nothing gets done in any of these places. So I mean yeah is it a silly idea of course it's not a great idea but the alternative is do nothing.
04:00
Speaker 2
Yeah but but your statement that nothing has done is simply incorrect. I mean hundreds and hundreds of miles of barrier have in fact been built over the years. When
04:12
Speaker 1
did it become racist to build barrier because trump trump was a racist when he wanted to put up a wall under Obama, I was down at Yuma that's a lot of that's Obama's wall.
04:23
Speaker 2
It is uh President Bush the second president Bush started it. Uh we committed to completing a large portion of it. Uh the fact is trump did not add a single mile to the barrier trump did not add a single additional mile. He repaired some barrier
04:46
Speaker 1
because he didn't want to
04:48
Speaker 2
only trump knows why trump does what trump does. I can't tell the fact is that where the barrier that exists now, which is overwhelmingly the come from uh the pacific ocean to texas. Um
05:08
Speaker 2
that was all put in place as I said when both the Bush administration and the Obama administration because after studies we decided those were the areas that you need it the most uh to be effective. There are other areas where the terrain is so bad you can't get through. You know, one of the interesting things with this particular area is just a few miles to the southeast of it is the cocoa paul reservation
05:35
Speaker 2
which the state has no jurisdiction over. Um And so to the extent you uh prevent people coming through uh near the Morello dam, which is where these uh containers are going. It's like squeezing a balloon. It's just going to go down to the cocoa pop. This particular gap has been there for it was there when I was there. I can't tell you. I don't, I don't recall to be quite honest why that gap was there. Um,
06:05
Speaker 2
So
06:05
Speaker 1
okay Andy Gordon is joining us, former counselor to the Department of Homeland Security for the Obama administration talking about the what Ducey put up its these shipping containers. Uh Andy doesn't like that idea. Listen, I always say this, I'm not a Republican. I'm not a democrat. I'm a skeptic. I don't like either party. So I mean I can see the guy.
06:25
Speaker 1
Good and the bad from each, uh, here's what I see from Joe Biden. I've been in Arizona 26 years. He's the worst president when it comes to the border. There's no one even close. Obama was pretty good Trump. Was, was, he did some stuff I hated, but he was also did some stuff that I thought were okay, biden is the worst I've ever seen. Do you agree with that?
06:47
Speaker 2
So I think you're completely wrong, but that's okay.
06:50
Speaker 1
Well you don't live here. We do.
06:52
Speaker 2
I do. I do. I've lived here since 1973.
06:56
Speaker 1
You live in Arizona
06:59
Speaker 2
central thomas.
07:00
Speaker 1
Oh my bad. I'm sorry. You know, you lived in Arizona. And how do you think that if you live in Arizona,
07:05
Speaker 1
how is this? Uh, Good. I mean, we have zero. We have, you could just wander into our country surrender and then we turn you loose.
07:14
Speaker 2
Well, a, that's not true. It's a simple matter. That's not true.
07:23
Speaker 2
Uh, secondly where this particular, uh, gap is in the wall. It's right on the Colorado River. It's not an easy place for people to cross. Uh, which is probably why that gap is there to begin with. Uh,
07:40
Speaker 2
so it's, it's not a big crossing spot. Uh, they interject, We interred. ICT more people now, uh, than we have in a long time. The fact is there's still a lot of people coming particularly from central America. Uh, to try and get into the U. S. Uh some of them are entitled to asylum. Some of them are here illegally. No question about
08:03
Speaker 1
that. Nothing's
08:05
Speaker 2
been done. But to say nothing has been done
08:08
Speaker 2
to deal with this problem is just nonsense.
08:12
Speaker 1
I haven't seen one. Tell me one thing. I haven't seen one thing that biden has done.
08:16
Speaker 2
I just told you that they largely increase the number of CBP agents they're processing people through more quickly now way more quickly now than was ever done during
08:27
Speaker 1
stopping anybody. Or we just we just processing them. They're faster.
08:31
Speaker 2
They're not. You know, some people get returned. Some people
08:34
Speaker 2
get to stay while their asylum claims are sorted out.
08:38
Speaker 1
More people have come in here than ever before, millions and millions of people
08:43
Speaker 2
know that that's that's not true. There is a large increase right now. But if you look at it historically over time the waves come and go. They come and go like this largely largely dependent. Remember that the bulk of these people who are attempting to come into the country
09:00
Speaker 2
to the southwest border are not mexicans. The bulk of them are from Central America. And what drives them are largely conditions in Central America.
09:13
Speaker 1
No, I understand
09:13
Speaker 2
that. I
09:15
Speaker 1
understand I understand that but you know but but we're expecting a total of two million by what next month I mean has that happened before? I haven't seen that happen before. Two million.
09:27
Speaker 2
This is not the highest ever.
09:29
Speaker 2
It's it's one of the high points, but it's not the highest it absent flows. You can pull it up and look at the numbers yourself and plot it over time.
09:38
Speaker 2
I don't have those figures right in front of me, but if you want to do this again, I'm glad to get
09:42
Speaker 1
them. All right. Yeah, let's do it because I've been, it is uh you know in political call it the worst in history all time highs, Wall street general all time highs. We're gonna break the record. Well we broke it now. We still have two months left in the fiscal year. That seems like all time highs seem all time highs.
10:05
Speaker 2
Okay.
10:06
Speaker 1
And you don't believe that their all time highs?
10:09
Speaker 2
Hey, I don't think they're all time high. But your bigger point is that nothing is being done simply isn't true. A lot is being done.
10:19
Speaker 1
A
10:19
Speaker 2
lot to be done. But it's not an easy problem to solve. I mean
10:23
Speaker 1
the president even been to the border Has, has Kamala Harris been to the border? No, we've had.
10:31
Speaker 2
Is it is it is it just coincidence that that Ducey pulls this political stunt
10:38
Speaker 2
a week after Senator kelly is down there explaining what's going to be done, coincidence.
10:45
Speaker 1
Alright. Alright. Um Andy Gordon? Uh Who does live here by the way? Yeah, sorry about that. You took me probably
10:52
Speaker 2
Longer than you two guys.
10:54
Speaker 1
Probably former counselor to the Department of Homeland Security. Uh, we look forward to having you on again and sparring. Thanks man.
11:00
Speaker 2
Great, great talk to you guys.
11:02
Speaker 1
So, just the last thing when I said, well, you know, you don't live here. Um,
11:08
Speaker 1
yeah, many people like, you know in politics, they don't live here. No, I understand that. But the reason I said, well, you don't live here. You don't know. He actually does live here.
11:18
Speaker 1
He lives here. I mean, if you live here, you should know again.
11:25
Speaker 1
I don't know how you could live in Arizona and think that things are just fine there.
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