|
Post by the Scribe on Apr 9, 2020 10:53:05 GMT
If you think arguing with a Republican, a Conservative, a Libertarian, an alt Righter will do any good think again. At least not if your intention is to change minds. You are talking to a brick wall.
99.9% of the time this is true. But I have come across an exception. I know him from this tennis forum where we're both members. He's a conservative and an evangelical christian. Just the opposite from me. But he nevertheless liked me because we both support the same player. It took a long, long time, but after a few years I had a breakthrough with him. And that came when I managed to convince him about the reality of elite paedophelia. Once he began to accept that he also started to research 9/11. He even started to talk about "the illuminati" and "the reptilians." He's still a conservative evangelical christian, but he no longer sees liberals or the left as an evil. He acknowledges that it makes sense that the haves should take care of the have nots. And he has completely changed his tune on the middle east as well. Whereas he used to be 100% on the side of Israel and considered islam the religion of evil, he now is on the side of the muslims and palestinians and checks out every video of Marwa Osman and Catherine Shakdam he can find. My success in waking that guy up was perhaps my proudest moment so far when it comes to this stuff.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Apr 9, 2020 10:53:25 GMT
Was there any particular turning point for him? What is his nationality?
I think people from other cultures and environments come to conclusions in various ways because their countries historical backgrounds differ so much. His origins are Mexican, but he lives in the US and works as a schoolteacher. Before he became a schoolteacher he used to work in a prison as a guard or something. As such he often had to deal with paedophiles and as a schoolteacher he has of course plenty of contact with kids. When I send him some articles and especially videos he started to believe, because he knows from a professional capacity what makes these people tick and he can recognize genuine trauma in people. So after awhile he told me, "ok, I'm going with this. You've convinced me." And after that his interest in the other stuff I had already told him about (but that he had dismissed) went up. Once that first domino falls people will begin to wonder, "What else have I been lied to for all my life?" Well, everything in my opinion. Or a lot more than you think anyway.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Apr 9, 2020 10:54:15 GMT
I would remind folks that such "ancient" conservatives as Bill Buckley were very intellectually informed, as well as, of course, being ideologically set (and you could put even Goldwater into this sect, at least in his later years). I don't think that political conservatism really turned ugly until Reagan came along, whereby we saw that ugliness accelerated under Bush and Bush II, and put on dangerous steroids by the Tea Party and then Trump. In terms of Eisenhower's "Cross Of Iron" speech, keep in mind that Ike was the Supreme Commander of the Allied forces in World War II, and he was very disturbed by the rise of the military's influence on American life after the war, when the thermonuclear age had been foisted upon us. The vaunted military/industrial complex already had its tentacles in practically every state and big city in this country during Eisenhower's eight years in the White House, and he was never really able to get a handle on it. It didn't help that the CIA was in existence to begin with, let alone being run by a couple of brothers with the last name of Dulles. All of that figured into that "Cross Of Iron" speech in 1953, as well as the famed "military/industrial complex" speech three days before he left office.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Apr 9, 2020 10:54:34 GMT
Reagan ushered in "Libertarian" social and economic ideology to make the new brand of conservatism we see today and the Republican Party has been building on that ever since, state by state, person by person with the help of their corporatist billionaire minions. These are the conservatives I refer to, not the pre-Reagan pre-1965 moderates that have steadily declined or left the party. While one would not think it Trump is the perfect face for today's conservatives, today's Republicans, today's fascists.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Apr 9, 2020 10:54:58 GMT
This article recently came out backing up my claim that talking to a brick wall is a waste of time. This is the group that sees the world as a dangerous place and wants to be protected from it—they embrace law and order. They are the authoritarian personalities who embrace Trump the authoritarian figure, liar or not. He promises to protect them even though he has absolutely no intention of ever doing so.
Read more: ronstadt.proboards.com/thread/1379/conservatism#ixzz4nZ8PQITa Trump supporters know Trump lies. They just don’t care.A new study explains the psychological power — and hard limits — of fact-checking journalism.
Updated by Brian Resnick@B_resnickbrian@vox.com Jul 10, 2017, 2:00pm EDT
During the campaign — and into his presidency — Donald Trump repeatedly exaggerated and distorted crime statistics. “Decades of progress made in bringing down crime are now being reversed,” he asserted in his dark speech at the Republican National Convention in July 2016. But the data here is unambiguous: FBI statistics show crime has been going down for decades.
CNN’s Jake Tapper confronted Trump’s then-campaign manager, Paul Manafort, right before the speech. “How can the Republicans make the argument that somehow it’s more dangerous today, when the facts don’t back that up?” Tapper asked.
“People don’t feel safe in their neighborhoods,” Manafort responded, and then dismissed the FBI as a credible source of data.
This type of exchange — where a journalist fact-checks a powerful figure — is an essential task of the news media. And for a long time, political scientists and psychologists have wondered: Do these fact checks matter in the minds of viewers, particularly those whose candidate is distorting the truth? Simple question. Not-so-simple answer.
In the past, the research has found that not only do facts fail to sway minds, but they can sometimes produce what’s known as a “backfire effect,” leaving people even more stubborn and sure of their preexisting belief.
But there’s new evidence on this question that’s a bit more hopeful. It finds backfiring is rarer than originally thought — and that fact-checks can make an impression on even the most ardent of Trump supporters.
But there’s still a big problem: Trump supporters know their candidate lies, but that doesn’t change how they feel about him. Which prompts a scary thought: Is this just a Trump phenomenon? Or can any charismatic politician get away with being called out on lies?
So the four researchers collaborated on two experiments with a wide range of people as subjects, including Trump and Hillary Clinton supporters.
The first experiment drew on Trump’s exaggerations of crime statistics.
In the experiment, participants read one of five news articles. One was a control article about bird watching. Another just contained a summary of Trump’s message without a correction. The third was an article that included a correction. The fourth included a correction, but then also a line of pushback from onetime Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort, who said the FBI’s statistics were not to be trusted. The fifth included a line where Manafort really laid into the FBI, saying, "The FBI is certainly suspect these days after what they just did with Hillary Clinton.”
The thinking here: If anyone should be able to incite a backfire effect among Trump supporters, it’s Trump’s campaign director. Manafort gives Trump supporters cover. They can reject the correction and cite one of the most influential figures in the campaign. And if there’s a time backfire ought to occur, it’s during a presidential campaign, when our political identities are fully activated.
But it didn’t happen. On average, all the study’s participants were more likely to accept the correction when they read it. Trump supporters were more hesitant to accept it than Clinton supporters. But that’s not backfire; that’s reluctance. Manafort’s assertion that the FBI statistics were not to be trusted didn’t make much of a difference either.
“Everyone’s beliefs about changing crime over the last 10 years became more accurate” in the face of a correction, Nyhan says. Nyhan, Reifler, Porter, and Wood
The research group then conducted a second experiment during the presidential debates. This one was conducted in near-real time: On the night of the first presidential debate, the group ran an online study with 1,500-plus participants.
The study focused on one Trump claim in particular. Trump said “thousands of jobs [are] leaving Michigan, Ohio ... they’re just gone.”
This, again, isn’t true. The Bureau of Labor Statistics actually finds both states created 70,000 new jobs in the previous year. Half of the participants saw the correction; the other half did not.
Again, the researchers found no evidence of backfire. It’s worth underscoring: This was on the night of the first presidential debate. It’s the Super Bowl of presidential politics. If corrections aren’t going to backfire during a debate, when will they?
Facts sink in. But they don’t matter. Let that sink in.
In both experiments, the researchers couldn’t find instance of backfire. Instead, they found that corrections did what they were intended to do: nudge people toward the truth. Trump supporters were more resistant to the nudge, but they were nudged all the same.
But here’s the kicker: The corrections didn’t change their feelings about Trump (when participants in the corrections conditions were compared with controls).
“People were willing to say Trump was wrong, but it didn’t have much of an effect on what they felt about him,” Nyhan says.
So facts make an impression. They just don’t matter for our decision-making, which is a conclusion that’s abundant in psychology science.
(And if you’re thinking, “How could one short experimental manipulation really change how much participants like Trump?” know that other research shows it’s possible. Notably, studies conducted during the election found that just reminding white voters they may be a racial minority one day increased support for Trump.)
“The big question is: To what extent do those results generalize beyond Trump himself?” says Nyhan. “Many of his supporters may have to come to terms with his records of misstatements by the time this study was conducted.” (The researchers did not test any fact-checks of Hillary Clinton talking points.)
Nyhan doesn’t place blame on Trump supporters themselves; it’s just human nature to stand by our political party’s candidates. But he says there’s something wrong with our institutions, norms, and party leaders who enable the rise of candidates who constantly lie.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Apr 9, 2020 10:55:21 GMT
You're right Rob.. Here is a video I saw this am.. Listen to the end.. sums up Trump supporters.
|
|
|
Post by the Scribe on Jan 18, 2021 4:23:46 GMT
Even after the son of a bitch Trump and GOPCON lawmakers tried to pull an insurrectionist coup de tat against our United States government this poll shows NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THEIR MINDS. Trying to reason with them is a waste of time. Forcing them to use critical thinking is a waste of time. THEY MUST BE KEPT OUT OF POWER AT ALL COSTS.Poll: Trump approval remains stable; Republicans unmoved after Capitol violencewww.yahoo.com/news/poll-trump-approval-remains-stable-140006714.html Carrie Dann Sun, January 17, 2021, 7:00 AM
WASHINGTON — Donald Trump is the only president in history to be impeached twice — this time for his role in encouraging a deadly assault on the Capitol by his supporters — but he is poised to leave office with a job approval rating that is fairly typical of his entire time in office. www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-poised-impeach-trump-second-time-incitement-insurrection-n1254051 www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/what-we-know-about-people-arrested-after-capitol-riots-n1253815
A new NBC News poll found that 43 percent of voters nationwide gave Trump a positive job approval rating, just barely down from 45 percent who said the same before the November election and the 44 percent who approved of his performance shortly after he took office in 2017. beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20457943-210016-nbc-news-january-poll-1-17-21-release
The same poll found that 35 percent of voters — including 74 percent of Republicans but just 30 percent of independents and 3 percent of Democrats — believe President-elect Joe Biden did not win the election legitimately.
Sixty-one percent of all voters — but just 21 percent of Republicans — say Biden did win legitimately.
While a record 10 House Republicans broke ranks to vote for Trump's impeachment last week, his approval rating among Republicans shows few signs that GOP voters are widely disillusioned with him. www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-poised-impeach-trump-second-time-incitement-insurrection-n1254051 www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-poll-voters-are-split-trump-s-impeachment-removal-n1254314
Almost 9 in 10 Republicans — 87 percent — give Trump a thumbs-up, compared with 89 percent who said the same before the November election.
And even for the half of Republicans who say they prioritize the GOP in general over allegiance to Trump, his high approval remains unmoved by recent events.
Among Republicans who say their primary loyalty is to Trump over the party, 98 percent approve of his performance. For those who say they prioritize the party over the president, his approval still stands at 81 percent — virtually unchanged from October. (The findings contrast with some other recent national polls showing Trump's job rating lower. Unlike other surveys that sampled all U.S. adults, NBC News' poll surveyed registered voters.) www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/01/15/biden-begins-presidency-with-positive-ratings-trump-departs-with-lowest-ever-job-mark/pp_2021-01-14_biden-trump-views_00-07/
In the NBC News survey, nearly a third of GOP voters surveyed — 28 percent — said Trump's words and actions related to the violence at the Capitol reinforced their vote for Trump.
Just 5 percent said they now regretted their support for him, and two-thirds — 66 percent — said their feelings had not changed.
While 52 percent of voters overall say Trump is solely or mainly responsible for the protests that led to rioters' overtaking the Capitol, including 91 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of independents, just 11 percent of Republicans agree. (About half of Republicans, however, place responsibility on "social media companies" and "Antifa.")
Hart Research
"While a few Republican elected officials have broken with Trump, Republican voters are sticking with him for now," said Democratic pollster Jeff Horwitt of Hart Research, who conducted the poll with Republican pollster Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies. "As we've seen over the course of his term, major event after major event does little to shake Trump's standing with Republicans."
Trump's standing among those outside the GOP remains similarly unchanged. He gets a positive job assessment from 44 percent of independents and just 5 percent of Democrats in the latest poll, shares that are also nearly identical to those in pre-election surveys.
Previous NBC News polling has, indeed, found Trump's approval among voters to be remarkably stable despite his tumultuous presidency, fluctuating only between a high of 47 percent and a low of 38 percent. www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/presidential-approval-poll-tracker-n1102776
The latter rating came in late 2017, after Trump was widely criticized for his response to violence after a gathering of white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia.
Half of voters call Trump 'worst than most' presidents
About half of the electorate — 49 percent of voters — ranks Trump as "definitely worse than most" presidents, a share recently rivaled only by the 48 percent who said the same of the departing President George W. Bush in late 2008.
An additional 9 percent say Trump is "not as good as most."
Forty percent of voters rank Trump as either "one of the very best" presidents (19 percent) or "better than most" (21 percent). That's significantly lower than majorities who gave above-average reviews to Bill Clinton (56 percent) or Barack Obama (55 percent) when they left office.
But Trump's lukewarm review still doubles the 20 percent of voters who gave Bush an above-average ranking when he departed the White House in 2009.
Trump's legacy, like views of his performance throughout his presidency, is defined by hard partisan lines.
Those viewing his presidency as "better than most" or "one of the best" include 82 percent of Republicans but just 40 percent of independents and just 4 percent of Democrats.
When Obama and Clinton exited office while enjoying relatively high approval ratings, a higher share of those in the opposite party — 20 percent and 27 percent of Republicans, respectively — ranked their presidencies as above average.
Biden, Harris best Trump on favorability scale
While the poll finds Trump's personal favorability ratings underwater, the Democrats heading to the White House fare better.
Biden has a net favorability rating of +4 (44 percent positive, 40 percent negative), while Vice President-elect Kamala Harris has a net rating of +0 (41 percent positive, 41 percent negative).
That's compared with Trump's net personal rating of -13 (40 percent positive, 53 percent negative).
Biden's wife, Jill Biden, has a personal favorability rating of +14 (40 percent positive, 26 percent negative). Notably, however, a majority of Republicans — 59 percent — give her a negative rating, a particularly high marker of antipathy for an incoming first lady from members of the opposing party.
Before Obama's inauguration, 33 percent of Republicans gave Michelle Obama a negative personal rating. And before Trump's inauguration, 44 percent of Democrats gave Melania Trump a similarly poor grade.
The NBC News poll of 1,000 registered voters was conducted Jan. 10-13, 2021, by the Republican firm Public Opinion Strategies and the Democratic firm Hart Research. The margin of error for registered voters is +/- 3.1 percentage points. beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20457943-210016-nbc-news-january-poll-1-17-21-release
|
|